Technical 2011 Fiat Panda Active 1.2 Misfiring + fuel management light on + white smoke under air intake

[Khaito]

Thanks everyone for the responses! The auto electrician I mentioned got back to me straight away yesterday and he sourced a replacement Bosch ignition coil pack + leads this morning and was able to fit it this afternoon - which, aye, was a moderately pricey route and I could've fitted it myself but figured it was safer to get someone who knows their stuff in case there was a further problem(s), he also cleared the codes after for me so I can abandon faffing about with the OBD2 adapter for now. Problem gone and confirmed the rubber around lead #3 was black and had a melted patch - will get a photo of the damage tomorrow during daylight.

I took the throttle body out and cleaned it up with some carb cleaner yesterday, had some sputtering when pressing the accelerator for a few minutes on first start with new coil but it seems cleared now.

Water in the footwells is most likely blocked water drains in the air intake. Look down from the top (below windscreen) and you should be able to see two split rubber bungs (aka "duckbills"). If the area is full of sludge water builds up and gets in through the heater air intake.

I let the water out on the day the misfire started, I thought potentially something had gotten wet from doing this and had caused this whole thing but there wasn't a lot of water sitting in there, only a dribble came out on both sides. I'm planning to take the wipers + scuttle panel off in the next few days though and clean them out properly as there's a bunch of mud sitting in the rubber bungs.

Hi

My throttle body isnt much better at 50k

Probably a symptom of 'short runs'
I bet the oil filler cap is full of Mayo too..

Ive had a LOT of FIRE experience..

You will learn a Lot from the plugs

Oil cap is actually surprisingly clean. Actually not seeing mayo type build up anywhere other than the gunge like what was on the throttle valve.

Additionally, I noticed yesterday whilst poking about is that there's too much oil in the engine. Oil looks clean so think it was done recently, I've gotten a new filter and oil to do a change to resolve that - it could explain some of the oil I found on the hoses etc. I've also got new NGK spark plugs to go in as I've got a feeling the ones currently on it could be the original ones (not fitting those until the oil is sorted!). There's also a fresh split in the sidewall of one of the rear tyres - guessing it's an old tyre and the sudden activity caused it to give up the ghost as it wasn't there when I checked the tyres the day I bought it. The spare wheel is in good condition so, err, silver linings? But the drum brake looked rotten, it's in REALLY bad condition so I think my theory about the brakes being worn and pulling fluid out the reservoir & triggering the low brake fluid light may be accurate. The wheels themselves look pretty neglected too behind the wheel trims so I think this poor Panda's previous owners were both older folk who barely drove it anywhere. Also entirely possible that it was left sitting in a marsh for the past 1.5 years going by the state of some parts.

I had the Panda booked into a local garage for Tuesday but it's a 20 min drive to get there so was dreading trying to figure out how to get it there with a smoking ignition coil which, fortunately, I now don't have to worry about. Planning to ask them to check all the brakes and replace the bust tyre as I don't have the physical strength to be able to get corroded drum brakes off ( or to fit that big spring in drum brakes - last time I tried to DIY one I just about lost a hand ). It's extra expense I'd rather not spend on what was supposed to be a cheap little run-about but it'll at least give me peace of mind that there's somewhat less of chance of grisly death.

With a vehicle stood for some time, there is always the possibility of rodent damage. All wiring and hosees need to be checked for any chewing, as such damage could lead to smoke from shorting wires or coolant escaping.
Smoke from a coil, and a misfire do go together. As long as coolant level is ok, a new coil pack might fix this, but the plugs do need checking too, as large gaps put a strain on coils.

OP, be more specific as to your location. There might be someone close enough to offer hands-on help.

Rodent damage did cross my mind and I eyeballed every wire I could lay eyes on but other than tape coming loose in spots and generally being dirty there isn't any sign of chewing etc that I can see.

As for location, I'm outside Perth in central Scotland.

Again, thanks everyone for the responses. Got pretty stressed out when the smoke appeared so it's heartening to know help is out there.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Hi

My throttle body isnt much better at 50k

Probably a symptom of 'short runs'
I bet the oil filler cap is full of Mayo too..

Ive had a LOT of FIRE experience..

You will learn a Lot from the plugs

Fitting a catch can in the breather has had a significant impact on our 1.2s smooth running. I think this is all part of having a pretty ancient old engine design with some more up to date engine management. Its not a bad thing but it has its weaknesse.s When these engines were simple carburettor engines you knew you had to fettle, and fettling meant a bit of cleaning along the line. In those days, if you maintained metronomically the car would be reliable. Now they have automated engine management reliabilty is generally much improved and this has lead many people to never open the bonnet. Now when things happen its normally more expensive to get going because more substantial failures have almost inevitable occurred. I dont miss doing ignition timing and points and condensers and valve cearances etc., not one bit, but I wish they did a bit more engineering to manage things like the crankcase breathers as these things still need manual intervention for the best reliability. Removing the clag that passes up the 1.2s breather must be a healthy thing. Our old Seat has started wheezing and sups oil like a BP shareholder. Our new garage find in Manchester says its engine typre is well known for a rapid drop off in performace at around 100K due to poor piston ring design. The result is its throttle body gets fouled by carbon deposits and this really stops it in its tracks. Hence my pursuit of crankcase breather and throttle cleanliness. Now I know we ensure the Seat is cleaned at least once a year. I dont really see why it should make such a difference but keeping these things pretty clean seems to me to be worth the (small) effort. SInce the catch can and the regular spray with carb cleaner we have noticed a big improvement in smooth running and engine power. MPG is a little better but I think the extra power is getting used.... Our 169, and the 319 which is 3 years newer have the same motor. The newer one is probably Euro 5 rather than 4. The newer car is significantly more economical but not quite as willing to perform. Both are very similar in the amount of gunge that comes from teh catch can. I hope this info may encourage others to consider a catch can as beneficial and relevant to keeping their Panda healthy.
Its easier than finding fresh bamboo shoots

 

[Khaito]

Fitting a catch can in the breather has had a significant impact on our 1.2s smooth running. I think this is all part of having a pretty ancient old engine design with some more up to date engine management. Its not a bad thing but it has its weaknesse.s When these engines were simple carburettor engines you knew you had to fettle, and fettling meant a bit of cleaning along the line. In those days, if you maintained metronomically the car would be reliable. Now they have automated engine management reliabilty is generally much improved and this has lead many people to never open the bonnet. Now when things happen its normally more expensive to get going because more substantial failures have almost inevitable occurred. I dont miss doing ignition timing and points and condensers and valve cearances etc., not one bit, but I wish they did a bit more engineering to manage things like the crankcase breathers as these things still need manual intervention for the best reliability. Removing the clag that passes up the 1.2s breather must be a healthy thing. Our old Seat has started wheezing and sups oil like a BP shareholder. Our new garage find in Manchester says its engine typre is well known for a rapid drop off in performace at around 100K due to poor piston ring design. The result is its throttle body gets fouled by carbon deposits and this really stops it in its tracks. Hence my pursuit of crankcase breather and throttle cleanliness. Now I know we ensure the Seat is cleaned at least once a year. I dont really see why it should make such a difference but keeping these things pretty clean seems to me to be worth the (small) effort. SInce the catch can and the regular spray with carb cleaner we have noticed a big improvement in smooth running and engine power. MPG is a little better but I think the extra power is getting used.... Our 169, and the 319 which is 3 years newer have the same motor. The newer one is probably Euro 5 rather than 4. The newer car is significantly more economical but not quite as willing to perform. Both are very similar in the amount of gunge that comes from teh catch can. I hope this info may encourage others to consider a catch can as beneficial and relevant to keeping their Panda healthy.
Its easier than finding fresh bamboo shoots

I'm going to look into how to fit one once I get mine back from the garage. From what I've read so far, am I correct in understanding it's fitted where the pipe goes from the rocker cover to the air intake?

Like in this thread? https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/oil-catch-tank.451654/#post4275967

 

[The Panda Nut]

PS Thanks for the follow up report, I am very pleased you have got the car going as you should really enjoy this car. I still love driving my daughters 169 it goes really well and uses fuel frugally. I do not really understand why driving the Pandas is so much fun, but it is. I would suggest that you also change the clutch fluid. This is described on here but even if a garage does this job its only half an hours work. The bleed screw is under the battery so a few bits need unbolting. The clutch fluid is not on the cars service shedule so its probably never been done. I hope you have fun! Do keep us posted

 

[The Panda Nut]

I'm going to look into how to fit one once I get mine back from the garage. From what I've read so far, am I correct in understanding it's fitted where the pipe goes from the rocker cover to the air intake?

Like in this thread? https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/oil-catch-tank.451654/#post4275967

Yes. Search on here you will see photos of my installation which is a bit rough but works well. If you are interested I have a brand new catch and its fittings which you can have for the postage which is either £3.85 or about £5.20 at worst. It had a broken dip stick when it arrived. In the end I discarded the dipstick on our car and swapped it for the broken stub on this part which had been replaced by the supplier so its now complete. Its black in colour. If you are interested send me a PM (Private Message) on here and we can sort it out.

 

[koalar]

If the car running correctly then there’s no need for a catch can

Not a great photo as it’s partly cut off at the top right

But this 2011 1.2 has over 90k miles and for the last few year has mostly done less than 3 miles of town journeys 3 or for times a day

You need a good seal between the air box and throttle body

It needs to be firing correctly on all cylinders

The two pipes need to be clear. And the little spigot on the air box


Cylinder head and piston rings in good condition

 

[Khaito]

Quick update. Got the car back today, the guys at the garage checked all the breaks etc and all is good - they cleaned and greased everything up for good measure. New spark plugs are fitted, new oil filter & oil in and two new tyres on the rear wheels - going to replace the two front ones next month as they're starting to crack. Car is running great, no more sputtering when accelerating. Only new feature I've noticed is that sometimes when stopped the idle revs a bit - almost like it's purring amusingly, it goes away if I rev it for a second until the next time I drive then come to a stop. Going to check the air intake + hoses are seated correctly once it stops raining.
The guys at the garage also looked into why the handbrake light is dimly lit all the time, fluid is fine, breaks are fine, they also stripped out parts of the interior to check the handbrake cable + parts and said it's all fine so they think there's maybe been some water ingress on the instrument cluster but they can't confirm. Anyone come across this before? I'm guessing there's a sensor somewhere for the break fluid level that's worth checking.

 

[Khaito]

Only new feature I've noticed is that sometimes when stopped the idle revs a bit - almost like it's purring amusingly, it goes away if I rev it for a second until the next time I drive then come to a stop. Going to check the air intake + hoses are seated correctly once it stops raining.

The sun conveniently came out already so went and had a look. Whoever put the air intake back on hadn't lined the rubber seal up properly with the throttle body, it was bent on one side and caught underneath so I've sorted it. Most likely the cause of the weird idle, will find out when I drive it again later on.

 

[varesecrazy]

Garage needed to remove airbox to change plugs ... so a 'new feature'..

See IF you completely unplug the brake fluid sensor wiring..

Does the light go Full Red.. or Full Black ?

 

[koalar]

Dim glowing handbrake warning is a common fault with damp getting into the dash. Even more so on the 500.

Which would fit with the damp carpets and blocked duck bills

 

[Khaito]

Dim glowing handbrake warning is a common fault with damp getting into the dash. Even more so on the 500.

Which would fit with the damp carpets and blocked duck bills

Yeah, I was thinking it was likely related to that.

Garage needed to remove airbox to change plugs ... so a 'new feature'..

See IF you completely unplug the brake fluid sensor wiring..

Does the light go Full Red.. or Full Black ?

I found this thread with info and a handy photo about it so I'll have a look and see what happens.

100hp Insufficient brake fluid do not proceed! | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Except that there is plenty of the stuff. Could not top up as already full. Anyone had this warning. Just came on all of a sudden as I was tanking along on the motorway. I did proceed of course, but checked as soon as possible.

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Khaito]

Garage needed to remove airbox to change plugs ... so a 'new feature'..

See IF you completely unplug the brake fluid sensor wiring..

Does the light go Full Red.. or Full Black ?

The light is on even when the ignition isn't on and unplugging the sensor makes no change so water in the electrics somewhere seems a likely cause. The brakes work fine so I'll put it on the list for getting it checked at some point in the future.

 

[koalar]

Installing aftermarket Rev Counter 1.1 panda | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

pandas are getting scrapped all the time. One will turn up eventually I ended up buying new stalks with the trip button and a dynamic cluster with only 8000 miles. But just came across a multijet with the reconfigurable multifunctional display. Would that work in a petrol car?

www.fiatforum.com

Ka
500
Panda

All suffer with glowing dash lights when damp gets in

Lamps on fully will be something else

 

[A3jeroen]

I had glowing lights in the cluster in my 500. It all went away with a new battery. Maybe start with an overnight recharge?

gr J

 

[portland_bill]

The light is on even when the ignition isn't on and unplugging the sensor makes no change so water in the electrics somewhere seems a likely cause. The brakes work fine so I'll put it on the list for getting it checked at some point in the future.

When the duckbills clog, and water finds its way into the interior, it is common for it to run over the body computer connectors.
Behind the dash, above your right foot, is the body computer. Try to carefully disconnect its connector, maybe disconnect the battery negative first, and dry out the connector with a hairdryer, on a cool setting if it has one, or hold further away if only a hot setting. Don't use a hot air gun, you'll melt important stuff. Hopefully this will help the light issue. If water gets into the computer, drying it out is much more difficult, and tedious if it needs removing and sitting in a box of rice.

 

[DaveMcT]

An electric dehumidifier inside the car for a few days will dry it nicely.

 

[chris3234]

An electric dehumidifier inside the car for a few days will dry it nicely.

This if you can park somewhere to leave one and run electric cable to it a garage would be even better to keep the car warm

 

[Khaito]

We had a few days of sunshine after I bought the car so I left it with all the doors open to dry out the carpets etc, not a lot I can do about the lashes of rain since then as the car sits outside. I've been making sure the water doesn't sit in the section under the wipers so hopefully that's enough for maintenance for now. Carpets are still dry at least and no condensation inside when driving it anymore.

I had a shot at trying to remove the wipers last weekend to get access to clean it all out but couldn't get the nuts to budge even after leaving them for a couple of days with WD40 on them and didn't want to break them so going to have to either A: get more leverage, B: get someone else to try!

The battery connectors look a bit worse for ware so when I get a dry day I'll disconnect the battery and give them a bit of a clean up and leave the battery charging overnight with the trickle charger I've got and see if that helps with the perpetually glowing dash light. Might check the earth points aren't a mess too. For drying out the computer, I'll have a look online for videos etc to get an idea of how much work is involved.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I had a shot at trying to remove the wipers last weekend to get access to clean it all out but couldn't get the nuts to budge even after leaving them for a couple of days with WD40 on them and didn't want to break them so going to have to either A: get more leverage, B: get someone else to try!

Although i'm not going to guarantee it'll free them up, try soaking them with a "proper" releasing oil - like Plus Gas, PB Blaster etc. I do use WD40 for various things but it's not a particularly aggressive releasing fluid. I've seen claims that the WD 40 stands for "Water Dispersant Formula 40" and what it's best at is dispersing moisture - ignition systems etc - and lightly lubricating stuff.

 

[koalar]

WD 40 stands for "Water Dispersant Formula 40"

origin WD40 was the 40th attempt to find a Water Displacement product to protect nuclear war heads from corrosion

It’s basically candle wax in solvents, when the solvents evaporate off it leaves a coating of a stick wax


I carry some just because it’s cheap. But it doesn’t do anything well on cars

I repaired loads of mechanical equipment that have been gummed up by both WD or 3 in 1

It’s rare that soaking does anything if the parts have grown together the is no way any oil can get between the parts