Technical Fiat Panda 1.1 MK3 2010 Changing Spark Plugs

[AlexJD]

My Panda is idling a little bit rough and is very intermittently misfiring on one of the cylinders. I don't believe the plugs have ever been changed from OEM. I did an OBD scan but no codes. So changing them for some NGK iridium plugs is probably a good idea (looking at NGK DCPR7EIX).

How tricky of a job is it? From what I've seen it's a little fiddly since the plugs aren't very accessible. Usually I'd hand tighten first before torquing to avoid cross threading but I'm not sure if you can with the positioning. Any extra tools you recommend? Obviously a 16mm deep socket and a and a wrench but 3/8 or 1/2 wrench?

Struggling to find any 16mm deep sockets that are not 1/2 which I'm worried about being too much torque (although buying a torque wrench and setting it to 25nm should prevent that). Probably overthinking it.

 

[jrkitching]

So changing them for some NGK iridium plugs is probably a good idea (looking at NGK DCPR7EIX).

Good call. I've used them in the 1.2 FIRE with excellent results - they'll last at least 60k miles, so this will be a job you should only have to do once.

How tricky of a job is it? From what I've seen it's a little fiddly since the plugs aren't very accessible. Usually I'd hand tighten first before torquing to avoid cross threading but I'm not sure if you can with the positioning.

Not as bad as some folks make out. I'd prefer a 3/8" drive setup for the reasons you mention, but the job can be done with a 1/2" set. A universal coupling next to the socket enables you to get just the slight angle you need to clear everything, but it can be done without. Take care not to disturb the injectors.

Initial tightening by hand is best practice (some folks have bought cars which have had cross threaded plugs). Easy enough if you just remove the ratchet handle from the setup.

although buying a torque wrench and setting it to 25nm should prevent that

That's a bit on the high side. If you've ever removed plugs from an ex-factory engine for the first time, you'll be surprised how little torque is required.

A full size torque wrench is too much of a blunt instrument for this task; a motorcycle wrench (5-40nm) would be better. Most folks with a bit of experience tighten spark plugs by feel (or use the angle tightening method if the plug washer is new).

NGK recommend 10.8-14.5 ft lb for M12 plugs in aluminium heads (14.5-19.5nm).

You're asking all the right questions, and thinking about the right things; I reckon you'll be just fine with this job.

 

[AlexJD]

Good call. I've used them in the 1.2 FIRE with excellent results - they'll last at least 60k miles, so this will be a job you should only have to do once.


Not as bad as some folks make out. I'd prefer a 3/8" drive setup for the reasons you mention, but the job can be done with a 1/2" set. A universal coupling next to the socket enables you to get just the slight angle you need to clear everything, but it can be done without. Take care not to disturb the injectors.

Thanks. I'll try find a 3/8" socket if I can, a torque wrench and a swivel socket. It's just difficult finding 16mm deep sockets for collection (trying to avoid Amazon if possible). Most places like Screwfix have socket sets with 15mm and 17mm but they skip 16mm.

From what I've read the plugs are all pre-gapped but is it worth getting a gap tool anyway to at least check the gaps are fine (in case any shipping bumps have closed the gaps).

 

[jrkitching]

From what I've read the plugs are all pre-gapped but is it worth getting a gap tool anyway to at least check the gaps are fine (in case any shipping bumps have closed the gaps).

Yes if you are using copper core OEM plugs.

Absolutely not if you go for the NGK iridiums; the centre electrode is extremely fine and brittle and the risk of damage is too great. You definitely don't want the tip falling into the cylinder. NGK pregap the DCPR7EIX to 0.8mm and the engine will run just fine with that setting (OEM plugs are 1.0mm). An additional benefit is that the smaller gap will put less stress on the coil pack(s).

Getting the boots off can be somewhat awkward (don't just pull on the leads, but I'm guessing you wouldn't do that). I've invested in a pair of plug boot pliers, which definitely helps.

 

[jrkitching]

It's just difficult finding 16mm deep sockets

I'd suggest you get a purpose made plug socket with a rubber insert to hold the plug in the socket - useful on an engine like this where access is not of the best.

 

[DaveMcT]

Some years ago, I bought a Laser brand long reach spark plug socket for my BMW 1200 bike. The cost was painful at nearly £20, BUT it has been incredibly useful and made spark plugs on my Pandas dead easy. The only issue was the magnet falling out (very common). JB Weld solved that.

The good ones are pricey and still not perfect but they make it hard to cross thread the plugs. That alone is a reason to buy.

 

[koalar]

Job is peice cake as long as the original plugs aren't seized in the head. Access is not a problem. There at the back so you can't see too well. Be careful putting them back in there not vertical but slanted

If they are squeeky Tight. Walk them out a bit at a time. Undo a bit and tighten back up undo a bit and tighten and so on.

If they are tight, don't keep swinging on the wrench, seek more advise

If you are starting from scatch

I would purchase a magnet swivel spark plug socket it will last a life time

I don't have one. I bought several over the years, but if I was starting over this is what I would buy

Knured so you can hand tighten
Rubber insert to protect the ceramic
Magnetic so it does not fall out
Swivels to any angle

This is just an example not a recommendation, no a deal breaket

 

[jrkitching]

I like that one.

it will last a life tIime

It would have, if I had bought it when first starting out.

For someone starting out today. I'm wondering how useful it will be for maintaining your EV?

I've a stack of obsolete tools stashed away in various places, none of which I can find. Anyone else remember using one of these? From memory, pretty much useless in daylight, and all too easy to get a shock from - it'd be downright dangerous on a car with a modern ignition system.

 

[DaveMcT]

I really dont like the swivel type because it's all too easy to get the plug across-thread. The long straight type lets you see the plug angle from any direction. Take photos from front and side so you'll know the angle for putting in the new plugs. A swivel "spanner" wont allow that.

This is mine - 16mm AF x 3/8 drive and long enough for any engine.

Laser 3682 Magnetic Spark Plug Socket - 16mm - 3/8"Drive | eBay

This extra long spark plug socket (250mm long) has a magnetic end for safe retrieval of the spark plug. Note : 10mm Spark plug Requires 16mm Spark Plug socket. Laser 6898 - Fits Scania Rear Spring Shackle Pin Socket Tool Scania 3/4 Drive.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[koalar]

I really dont like the swivel type because it's all too easy to get the plug across-thread. The long straight type lets you see the plug angle from any direction. Take photos from front and side so you'll know the angle for putting in the new plugs. A swivel "spanner" wont allow that.

This is mine - 16mm AF x 3/8 drive and long enough for any engine.

Laser 3682 Magnetic Spark Plug Socket - 16mm - 3/8"Drive | eBay

This extra long spark plug socket (250mm long) has a magnetic end for safe retrieval of the spark plug. Note : 10mm Spark plug Requires 16mm Spark Plug socket. Laser 6898 - Fits Scania Rear Spring Shackle Pin Socket Tool Scania 3/4 Drive.

www.ebay.co.uk

Fine on the Panda where access is good

But will not fit some cars though, where the plugs are low down at the front

In fact the one in the video might be marginal on say a merc A class

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I like that one.


It would have, if I had bought it when first starting out.

For someone starting out today. I'm wondering how useful it will be for maintaining your EV?

I've a stack of obsolete tools stashed away in various places, none of which I can find. Anyone else remember using one of these? From memory, pretty much useless in daylight, and all too easy to get a shock from - it'd be downright dangerous on a car with a modern ignition system.

Still got my mine:

And you can see that it's still in pristine condition. Still got half a bottle of the original cleaning fluid, which speaks volumes for how often I used it!

I bought it to try to get the best results possible out of the old S,U, carburettors. But soon found that I could adjust them better by ear. So it just sits, in all it's glory, in my drawer of tools which I can't/wont get rid off.

Spark plug sockets? Over the years I've had several different types and I agree the magnetic type are a must have. All the ones I've had with rubber inserts now have their inserts missing because they drop out after a few years of use. These are the two magnetic ones I have at present:




The bigger one is 21mm and the smaller 16mm and I find that, fitted with appropriate extension pieces, (of which I'm fortunate enough to have many options) they deal with everything I've come across so far. You can see the magnetic rings inside the hex. I find they hold the plug securely enough that it doesn't drop out as you're trying to fit it - or remove it - but don't hang on so strongly that it overcomes the retainer on an extension which would leave the socket on the plug as you withdrew the extension after fitting.

 

[AlexJD]

I've seen some people mentioning that there's a throttle cable that gets in the way of removing the plug for the third cylinder. Is this true? Is there a workaround. Haven't had a look at mine yet but thought I'd check here as well.

 

[varesecrazy]

Being 2010.. the cable has probably gone..
FlyByWire

 

[AlexJD]

Oh dear It's Sunday brain has not fully engaged yet.

 

[AlexJD]

Okay so far the biggest pain seems to be the spark plug leads. I did get a long pincer designed for it but it doesn't close tightly enough (24mm) to grip the leads in order to wiggle them out.

Anyone have a recommendation for a better pincer tool that can grip the smaller leads on the Panda? Trying to find something I can pickup at Screwfix or europarts.

 

[koalar]

I just use my fingers but can be a struggle

This guy is using extra long reach bent nose plier, which are useful for other things

 

[AlexJD]

I just use my fingers but can be a struggle

This guy is using extra long reach bent nose plier, which are useful for other things

Yeah I've seen the videos of people pulling them out by hand. You can feel it move a little at the beginning but even if I pull it and push it, it doesn't seem to loosen. Not sure if you can use penetrating oil on them but I do have some if I can.

I got pliers exactly like this video but they don't close tightly enough to grip the leads.

 

[koalar]

Something like these

Don't like recommending things I don't use

amtech 11Inch Bent Nose Plier - 90 Degree | Euro Car Parts

amtech 11Inch Bent Nose Plier - 90 Degree at the lowest UK prices from Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 for Car Accessories, Car Styling & Car Care. Buy today Online, In store or by Phone + Branches Nationwide – Next Day UK Free Delivery.

www.eurocarparts.com

Very little in stock at the moment for pickup


Plenty online

 

[DaveMcT]

Cut an inch length of 10mm bore rad hose and slit it length ways. Fit it around the HT lead (to spread the load) and pull with pipe pliers.

 

[varesecrazy]

Have a set of new leads at hand..as there is ALWAYS a risk of damage