Technical Panda 1.1 2006 starting problem

[Greasytrucker]

Stop reading radom stuff on the internet

There's a lot of different engines, fuels around the world

Most of the information is legacy from old data that's rehashed, or not relivent to this engine

What you need is information about your engine

You need a pressure of around 100 psi just for combustion to possible, you are below that

Mine is 215 psi 1.2 2010 I have tested it a few times always over 200

That on a fairly weak
battery

Even the older low compression ratio puntos were 200 psi

Compression Pressures? | FIAT Punto (Mk1)

Can anyone tell me what the cold cranking compression pressure is for a standard 1242cc.P75.

www.fiatforum.com

1.2 8v compression 175 psi or 12 bar | FIAT Punto (Mk2/2b)

1.2 8v compression 175 psi or 12 bar bought this 8v supposedly with bad hg, changed battery car started in first try, measured compression (dry) and it was around 175 psi or 12 bar on all 4 cylinders car was almost cold, car doesnt lack any power is that normal compression?

www.fiatforum.com

You are either doing the test incorrectly
The gauge is faulty

Or this is your problem

If there was one of the new awards for patience I think you’d have earned it by now!

 

[koalar]

If there was one of the new awards for patience I think you’d have earned it by now!

We all done it

Websites can look posh, professional and convincing, even the main TV news

But it does not mean the information is either correct, current or true

For example there's still a lot of websites that still show how the plugs should look on leaded petrol. 20 years after it was phased out in Europe for cars, and they are still popping up

Both NGK and Champion have excellent current information on plugs

One of the hardest thing to find is the correct Obdii error coded

P0??? Are normally okay
P1??? Can be manufacture or even model different

A Google search has a 50/50 change of coming back with the correct information

I understand the frustration of the original poster

But when we see something not right there is no point in moving on untill it's been addressed

It's 50/50 it's timing or testing, with the plugs being a the back it's quite hard to get a good seal with a pipe and adapter, as its would be pain to remove if the adaptor unscrewed

The rubber cone works fine but you need push down hard

Remove all plugs

Get someone to to turn it over for about 3 seconds, while I press down with the compression tester

I don't bother with the wide open throttle and still get valid results

As per page 2 of this thread

The tube and adapter method is very difficult to get valid results

 

[barrycash]

Stop reading radom stuff on the internet

There's a lot of different engines, fuels around the world

Most of the information is legacy from old data that's rehashed, or not relivent to this engine

What you need is information about your engine

You need a pressure of around 100 psi just for combustion to possible, you are below that

Mine is 215 psi 1.2 2010 I have tested it a few times always over 200

That on a fairly weak
battery

Even the older low compression ratio puntos were 200 psi

Compression Pressures? | FIAT Punto (Mk1)

Can anyone tell me what the cold cranking compression pressure is for a standard 1242cc.P75.

www.fiatforum.com

1.2 8v compression 175 psi or 12 bar | FIAT Punto (Mk2/2b)

1.2 8v compression 175 psi or 12 bar bought this 8v supposedly with bad hg, changed battery car started in first try, measured compression (dry) and it was around 175 psi or 12 bar on all 4 cylinders car was almost cold, car doesnt lack any power is that normal compression?

www.fiatforum.com

You are either doing the test incorrectly
The gauge is faulty

Or this is your problem

The Haynes manual states "Fiat do not specify exact compression pressures, as a guide, any cylinder pressure of below 10 bars can be considered as less than healthy". 10 bars is 145 psi, so my cylinders are reading low. But both the Haynes manual and the instructions with the gauge say that you should run the engine until it is at normal temperature before the test, which I can't do! The fact that it's cold will reduce the pressure, I would think. I also didn't have the throttle wide open while I did the test, which both instructions specify. Presumably that would also reduce the pressure?
Given those facts, and pressures between 90 and 105 psi, are my results rreally that bad?

 

[Terry899]

The Haynes manual states "Fiat do not specify exact compression pressures, as a guide, any cylinder pressure of below 10 bars can be considered as less than healthy". 10 bars is 145 psi, so my cylinders are reading low. But both the Haynes manual and the instructions with the gauge say that you should run the engine until it is at normal temperature before the test, which I can't do! The fact that it's cold will reduce the pressure, I would think. I also didn't have the throttle wide open while I did the test, which both instructions specify. Presumably that would also reduce the pressure?
Given those facts, and pressures between 90 and 105 psi, are my results rreally that bad?

I think I'd call out a mobile mechanic to have a look, can't do any harm and sometimes we just bark up the wrong tree... I bought 2 batteries before a mechanic pointed out my starter motor had an internal fault shorting out and flattening the battery, never would have thought that but his experience proved correct.

 

[koalar]

The Haynes manual states "Fiat do not specify exact compression pressures, as a guide, any cylinder pressure of below 10 bars can be considered as less than healthy". 10 bars is 145 psi, so my cylinders are reading low. But both the Haynes manual and the instructions with the gauge say that you should run the engine until it is at normal temperature before the test, which I can't do! The fact that it's cold will reduce the pressure, I would think. I also didn't have the throttle wide open while I did the test, which both instructions specify. Presumably that would also reduce the pressure?
Given those facts, and pressures between 90 and 105 psi, are my results rreally that bad?

Yes very bad

You are either testing it wrong

Or your problem is here

Here's @atakan123123 at 190 psi

That's me
The two threads
Two other people in the threads
And the example above

That 5 people with roughly 200 psi

Please just take the spark plugs out of all the cylinders

Unplug the large connector on the injector harness

And just jam the rubber cone in to the spark plug hole

Get someone to turn the engine over on a fully charged battery for a couple of seconds

Whole thing shouldn't take more than 5 minuites

Then we will know where we stand

Its hard to get a good seal with the pipe and adapters supplied with a cheap compression tester, plus it awkward with plug holes at the back

 

[Greasytrucker]

The Haynes manual states "Fiat do not specify exact compression pressures, as a guide, any cylinder pressure of below 10 bars can be considered as less than healthy". 10 bars is 145 psi, so my cylinders are reading low. But both the Haynes manual and the instructions with the gauge say that you should run the engine until it is at normal temperature before the test, which I can't do! The fact that it's cold will reduce the pressure, I would think. I also didn't have the throttle wide open while I did the test, which both instructions specify. Presumably that would also reduce the pressure?
Given those facts, and pressures between 90 and 105 psi, are my results rreally that bad?

AKA “The Haynes book of lies”. In my younger days I used to beat myself up when i couldn’t repair something with a “2 spanner rating” but then I soon realised they were normally working on brand new vehicles so things were very rarely as simple as they made out. I wouldn’t trust a Haynes manual over the vast amount of knowledge on this forum

 

[Terry899]

AKA “The Haynes book of lies”. In my younger days I used to beat myself up when i couldn’t repair something with a “2 spanner rating” but then I soon realised they were normally working on brand new vehicles so things were very rarely as simple as they made out. I wouldn’t trust a Haynes manual over the vast amount of knowledge on this forum

Haynes book of lies
You try to follow it and it says remove for example, remove driveshaft without any hint of in what order and bolt sizes and then the gearbox oil falls on your floor because anything about the gearbox is in a different section
I really think Haynes went down hill when John Haynes stopped doing it himself.

 

[koalar]

I did this for each cylinder. I don't understand what is meant by checking it "wet".

You add around 3ml of oil and see if the Compession rises, if it does the problem is in the bottom half, all 4 cylinders at half the PSI we are a long way from needing to do this test

I've checked the timing by removing the plugs and the camshaft cover. With the marks on the camshaft lined up, number 1 piston is at TDC, and the valves are both closed. How is it possible that the timing could be sufficently out for the engine not to fire at all?

The inlet closes roughly 30 degrees before top dead centre

The exhaust opens roughly 60 degrees before bottom dead centre

180-60 =120 after top dead center exh
+30 before top dead center inl


When both valves closed it's anywhere in the 150 degree window

It might be right, it might not be, but checking if both valve are closed at TDC proves nothing

 

[jrkitching]

all 4 cylinders at half the PSI

my first thought would be that the compression test isn't being done correctly, or that the testing tool is faulty or not seating correctly.

 

[koalar]

my first thought would be that the compression test isn't being done correctly, or that the testing tool is faulty or not seating correctly.

Yep me too

The plugs at the back make squishing the o rings in the down to make a decent seal difficult with the pipe and adaptors

It's very easy and quick to use the cone adapter, already posted twice, it works

We know what the PSI should be, We aren't moving forwards, we don't know if the readings are right

We don't know if the timing right,

The only things we know for sure is it does not start, it cranks, it has spark

 

[koalar]

@barrycash

Have you pressed the cone of the Compession tester into the spark plug hole and seen if the results are the same

We know this method works, without the correct valid data we can not move forwards

 

[barrycash]

Egg on face time.
The manual provides three procedures for setting up the timing. My engine is the latest one in the manual and I was using the wrong procedure. Now I have used the correct one the engine runs sweetly.

Thank you for all your help and suggestions.

 

[koalar]

Egg on face time.
The manual provides three procedures for setting up the timing. My engine is the latest one in the manual and I was using the wrong procedure. Now I have used the correct one the engine runs sweetly.

Thank you for all your help and suggestions.

Glad it's all sorted

 

[varesecrazy]

Egg on face time.
The manual provides three procedures for setting up the timing. My engine is the latest one in the manual and I was using the wrong procedure. Now I have used the correct one the engine runs sweetly.

Thank you for all your help and suggestions.

So it obviously had jumped..

Don't be too shocked, it's a pretty common occurence