General Starter Motor Panda 1.1

[hodgy18]

Morning All

Anyone got any videos of changing a Panda 1.1 starter motor. Looks a right pain to get to. Read going from above is a definite to get to the bolts etc

 

[koalar]

Done it both ways

It can be done by feel from the top

Once out, there's enough play in the wires to turn the motor round so the electrical connector is facing up to lift the plastic cover and undo the terminals

That's how I have done it on the road side and scrap yard


But it is much quicker and less risky the do it from underneath with the car on axel stands

 

[koalar]

There's only two bolts that hold it in

But they go in at 180 degrees to each other

Couldn't find a decent photo

 

[koalar]

There's only one nut holding down both electrical connectors the little brown wire and wavy spring are quite delicate and easy to damage

 

[koalar]

What's the starter being changed for, I changed a few ingnition switch for starter not activating

Faulty block ground is also common cause for the starter not to operate

There's at least two where the alternator to starter cable has been loose at one end

But I have only changed the starter for noise after the engine has fired, I never known one to proper fail yet

 

[hodgy18]

Bad starting, crunching noise from starter, then has eventually give up. So got a new one

 

[irc]

The 1.1 (and non-aircon 60hp 1.2) are definitely do-able from above, in fact that's my preference as I usually only have a tilting ramp available at the moment.
1 bolt fom each side of the end plate, then carefully maneuver the starter motor out, and remove the nut for the power/trigger cables and plastic cover.
I've done enough now that muscle memory takes over, so it's actually quite hard to describe the process.
Here's some thoughts, but I could have missed a few points.

Its easier if the battery tray is removed, but possible without. Removing the coil holder (10mm nuts & a bolt) can also make it easier to see.
A knuckle joint can make the gearbox-side bolt easier to loosen/tighten. Its right in the corner of a casting junction.

Take note of how the plastic cover, trigger wire and power cable all fit together, as many people seem to get it wrong.
Also, it's easy to not-quite tighten the power cable nut, so it either doesn't work, or stops working after a while. But also easy to overnighter it and snap the stud.
The plastic cover has to fit in a particular position, and as you'll be doing it blind, check it is correct before tightening by trying to turn it gently.


As @koalar said above, complete failure is rare, screeching noise is more common and fixable, but starter still needs to come off to fix.

Most of the few actual failures I have seen seem to be broken solenoid fork (although I have seen one with signs of electric fire, but that was from someone trying to start a nearly siezed engine).

 

[hodgy18]

Any idea why my new motor has an extra bolt? Website said it was correct for non air con model?

 

[hodgy18]

Done it both ways

It can be done by feel from the top

Once out, there's enough play in the wires to turn the motor round so the electrical connector is facing up to lift the plastic cover and undo the terminals

That's how I have done it on the road side and scrap yard


But it is much quicker and less risky the do it from underneath with the car on axel stands

What's the point in the plastic cover? Looks like an extra thing to fight with haha

 

[koalar]

Any idea why my new motor has an extra bolt? Website said it was correct for non air con model?

Not the correct starter

There's no insulation to double stack the cables

 

[irc]

As above. The terminal stud is too short.
That's a favourite goof of Eurocarparts (and others). I once had to get the poor counter guy to go and get a few so we could choose one with a long enough stud. I think it took 5 attempts.

If you specified it was for a Fiat Panda (or quoted the Fiat part number) then the supplier should replace it with no argument.

 

[hodgy18]

It'll fit if I hoy thar bit of plastic away haha! To me it's only purpose is being a cover.

 

[koalar]

The original both the small brown wire and the main feed wire should go on the same post

It's the wrong starter


Without knowing the pull in current and hold current for the solenoid, it's impossible to know if it safe to hard wire and bodge it or not

 

[DaveMcT]

The fancy spring on the trigger wire (large diameter ring terminal) will cause problems when not absolutely correctly fitted. I had a fight with mine but when done right the starter worked perfectly. IIRC, the (seemingly pointless) plastic cover is part of the system.

 

[hodgy18]

Got another starter from my local parts dealer and works a treat with the longer pole.

Thermostat done whilst the battery was out.

Anyone know what this is circled. Looks a bit knackered.

 

[irc]

Yep. That's your main earth lead (or actually the chassis to gearbox section of it).
Looks pretty gnarly.

 

[koalar]

Yep. That's your main earth lead (or actually the chassis to gearbox section of it).
Looks pretty gnarly.

Correct

And also the ground for the starter motor

I am surprised it's working at all

Needs addressing ASAP before your left stranded

 

[DaveMcT]

That is your main earth point. It goes from engine to battery to bodyshell. Your's a toast. If it was not the reason for your starter playing up, it certainly will be very soon. Replace it with a heavy duty earth strap with black insulation.

 

[hodgy18]

That is your main earth point. It goes from engine to battery to bodyshell. Your's a toast. If it was not the reason for your starter playing up, it certainly will be very soon. Replace it with a heavy duty earth strap with black insulation.

£45 for one these wires! Do you know anywhere cheaper?

 

[koalar]

£45 for one these wires! Do you know anywhere cheaper?

Just measure it

And get a universal one with 8mm eyes on each end

There less than a fiver


Or go the scrap yard and take one off, it doesn't have to be from a panda or even fiat