Seicento Monster Cento/ECU Master Thread

[Devious]

Epic thread. Granted 95% of it baffled the granny out of me but I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Keep up the good work chap!
Ta

 

[Honeymonster]

Epic thread. Granted 95% of it baffled the granny out of me but I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Keep up the good work chap!
Ta

Thanks mate, glad you're finding it entertaining.

Some pictures of the tightness for his Blu-ness:






Yellow and green pipe is only temporary I have a nice roll of red stuff but keep forgetting to take it with me.

Brake servo pipe is from a 205 GTI and is a hard walled flexible which is much easier to work with than the nasty plastic standard stuff.

 

[woj]

What tightness? I can still see through to the ground on two pictures Certainly not possible on my Cinq.

I would suggest looking at the possibility of getting your hands on the Palio75 inlet manifold instead of the Punto one. It has much more convenient outputs for the servo and for the MAP/FPR "vaccums", see here:

 

[Honeymonster]

Meh, it's all sorted now I will just spiral wrap the pipes that are close. There is no movement from the engine whatsoever (trust me on this!!) so it will be fine. Might be a good idea for Blu to source one if it won't fit in his though. Map outputs are fine, I have a bolt in one because it was bent but I have a screw in fitting I can use if I need to. It's actually better to use hard map pipes but they just don't look as nice as the shiny red silicone I bought.

Anyway back to this ring gear, I notice all the Uno, panda and wet shaft box seis/cinqs have a bolt on gear available separately. My Abarth box is actually 57/14 which is very annoying (and screams at low speeds). I can swap the box casings over the to the Cinq one no problem and that gives me a 58/15 box.

However there are no ring gears available for the dry shaft box's unless you buy a complete diff. I notice the wet shaft box ring gears can be bought in all the configurations but have threaded rather than bolt through holes. If this is the only difference it will be very easy to correct with a drill and at worst some inserts.

Has anyone got a wet shaft ring gear, or know if a wet shaft ring gear will fit on a dry shaft diff (minus the threaded holes)??

I'd really rather not run it with a chipped tooth.

I can get a panda/uno 58/15 ring gear BNIB for about £7 so if it only needs minor modifications I'll just swap the casings and buy some more preload shims.

Any gearbox Guru's out there??

 

[blu73]

Yep, looks like i'll be getting rid of the ABS from them pics, no real loss as its a rubbish system anyway.

 

[Honeymonster]

Hmmmm, since my charcoal canister isn't getting in the way I think I'm going to fit the one way valve (like that from a brake servo) as Woj's suggestion. It's damn annoying in a Cinq but well out of the way in a Sei, in fact it's more trouble to remove than keep.

Might of tracked down a new ring gear too, will find out tomorrow with a bit of luck.

 

[woj]

The one way valve you need one that is suitable for fuel I guess.

Oh, and my diff is of course the pressed on type, sorry. Also, no answer as yet from a certain individual.

 

[Honeymonster]

I used a fuel non return valve on the brake servo by coincidence (original was too fat for the 205 pipe), sure I can get another one and that's even better because they are aluminium and shiny.

Thanks for contacting the chap for me Woj, hopefully we will get a reply tomorrow.

It must be an hour later where you are now, well past my bedtime. LOL

 

[blu73]

Whats difficult to remove it? Clearly no room for in on mine, was gone way before i got the car, but as far as i can tell from looking at it the pipe from canister to TB and the canister itself has been removed, the line that went to the canister is just stuck on the TB. Simples!

 

[Honeymonster]

No that line goes to the fuel tank via the solenoid and charcoal canister. If you just connected without a solenoid or NRV you would boost your fuel tank. LOL

My canister is under the wing, unlike a Cinq so it doesn't get in the way. A one way valve will stop it boosting the tank when the valve opens (which won't usually happen in a boosted condition anyway) or in case the solenoid fails.

You sure yours isn't still there hidden under the wing Blu?

Another good thing is it will save me tricking the ecu and it also be better for emissions.

Being used to the Cinq set up I thought it would be hassle but on the Sei it's doing no harm where it is, in fact it's actually doing some good.

 

[Honeymonster]

Well I took a risk, well not really £67.50 for a complete brand new genuine Fiat diff with bolt on ring gear and the same number of teeth (57) as my Abarth box. If anyone needs the diff part just let me know as I only want the ring gear.
I'm hoping it will fit as it could be for either a 57/14 or 57/16 but I expect both the ring gears are the same anyway and most 16 pinions seem to be wet shaft box. It took freakin hours to find this at a sensible price, no joke.



So my car my be a bit of a screamer at low speeds but the 0-60 should be interesting.

Still it's going to take a while to get here...

 

[blu73]

Mmm, i'll have a look when i get home, i'm in the Forest of Dean atm.

 

[Honeymonster]

Hmmm I have now discovered it's a 57/16 diff which is not compatible with the 57/14 pinion/countershaft...

So I will have to fit the 57/16 countershaft:

http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi...3&WINDOW_ID=1&SGRP_COD=15&SGS_COD=1&DRW_NUM=4

Good news is I end up with a long ratio box with a final drive of 3.5625 which will be better for the turbo and my top speed.

Bad news..... what a pain in the ar%$ this whole thing has been and I still have a shaft/shims to buy and I have a minor box rebuild to do.

It's crazy that Fiat don't sell the dry shaft box ring gears separately. :bang:

To make it worse I actually received the diff fitted in a suitable box with a suitable ratio from Gaz. Since the box was originally going in a Cinq with the same ring gear (and it was a Sei/Punto box) I let one of my mates have the box as long as he removed the diff (insert damage to ring gear here) to repair a Punto.

Now I'm using a Sei rather than a Cinq for my project, the box would have gone straight in after a good clean and I'd have a mint crown gear and more time and money in my pocket.

Some times helping others doesn't pay off, Usually it does though so please don't stop helping others.

It's not going to hold things up though, Power comes first grip comes last the box and diff can wait.

 

[Honeymonster]

I had just over an hour to make a few tweeks.

After some very temporary wiring, a temporary air filter and a temporary breather filter I introduced the standalone fuelling...

It ran very briefly and died after a few seconds. I upped the whole Volumetric efficiency table to some silly numbers (it clearly wasn't getting enough fuel) and tried again.

It rumbled into life and purred like a content kitten at 400rpm!!

A few more adjustments to the table after warm up and it was sitting at Stoich.

I upped the tick over with the idle screw on the throttle body as it was so low it wasn't charging the battery (shown clearly on the monster tach ).

Whole map needs loads of adjustment, especially the acceleration enrichment, but it works!! If I get some more time tomorrow I'll do a permanent job on the wiring and start on the base map.

I'll post my settings once I'm finished for those interested.

As Hannibal Smith would say "I just love it when a plan comes together".

 

[centoproject]

nice progres i will be needing your assistance when i get my ecu (when i select a good but not too expensive one ? ) keep it up

 

[Honeymonster]

nice progres i will be needing your assistance when i get my ecu (when i select a good but not too expensive one ? ) keep it up

Thanks mate, I think you're gonna need something quite high end with your throttle body set up and it will be a lot more tricky to tune too.

I was actually just thinking, for the chaps wanting to go naturally aspirated or just straight fit a MPI Punto 75 motor and squeeze the full 75bhp from it, we've nearly reached the end of the thread. After I get a base map on things as they stand and post some settings, everything from that point on will be turbo related.

What does this mean...

Well it means that anyone can drop a MPI 75 motor straight into their Cento with a few minor mechanical modifications. Then they can get it running and tunable on MPI while only having to spend £140 on an ECU and do very minimal wiring like the diagram near the start of this thread.

Can't see any reason at all why this won't work just as well on the 16v too.

No excuses now, I expect to see lots of cool Cento's appearing over the coming months with 75 and 16v conversions. :slayer:

 

[Honeymonster]

Yay, changed the wiring a bit and took it for a drive. My beast of a fuel pump was completely overwelming the standard regulator but I couldn't fit my after market one as the Fiat clip was too short to hold it properly. Well today I fitted a reg clip from a BMW M50 engine, job done. What a complete difference it has made, fuel pressure is stable at 3 Bar and the engine revs cleanly and sweetly before I've even had a chance to have a proper play with the maps.



Another cool thing, seems the Fiat ECU is dumb and doesn't know it has no injector connected. This means the original injector power cable can be used with just the ground (injector wire) from the DET3. So why is that cool? Well it means even less wiring, no resistor and no extra fuses. It also means you could intercept the the old injector ground at the ECU plug with the rest of the DET cabling meaning a very tidy job indeed.

I have an injector light on the dash from having the lamda disconnected, meh wideband has a NB output which is pretty static IIRC so might hook that up to get rid of it.

One bad bit of news, my old rad has started to leak from the end cap so I'll have fit the new one before any decent road mapping can be done. It's a tiny problem, the car runs great already (can't believe it's low compression!!) so things are only going to get better. :slayer:

I will take my camera and get a video tomorrow.

 

[Honeymonster]

Rad fitted and video uploading. That noise is the injectors the engine is sweet as nut. :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4p73pJ5h7Y&feature=youtu.be

Can't stand these Strongflex engine mounts it feels like the engine is welded to the chassis. :bang:

Will probably just keep the gearbox item and run the other two standard.

Will play with the map a bit tomorrow as it's a very rich. Then on to the turbo!! :slayer:

 

[centoproject]

Engine looks nice and sounds quite fiesty as well

 

[Honeymonster]

Engine looks nice and sounds quite fiesty as well

Thanks mate I'm fairly pleased with it, just needs a big turbo now.

I guess these piggy back things do work after all...