"smart" motorways

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"smart" motorways

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Anyone watch the program on them last night? The whole concept worries the pants off me. Surely you need a hard shoulder for immobile vehicles, emergency vehicle access, etc. and "refuges" how pray, am I to ensure my car is going to break down just as I'm approaching one?

Having the possibility of a stationary vehicle in a lane where people are going at motorway speeds is utter lunacy surely? The average driver, self included, just doesn't have the reactions to cope with it when they are not expecting it.
 
They have been around quite a while.

They do keep traffic moving in some capacity such as slowing cars to get more cars into the space (smaller gaps) however i've worried about the concept of what happens if someone does break down, how quickly can they see and close the first lane?

I've driven on many of them in the last few years but not had any problems.
 
I don't mind the whole variable speed limits part and being able to close lanes for broken down Cars
But they should all still have a hard shoulder

The ERA are a good idea that should be on all motorways
 
I live 1 mile from J28 M1 and go on the Smart Motorway nearly every day. I would prefer a hard shoulder.

It seems like a backward step. It doesn't feel much safer than the A1 now.

The 2 men on last nights programme who had a puncture threw the puncture repair tin onto the grass. That cheeses me off as well.

Another annoying thing are Lay-by areas just before the junctions. They are full up all day with people using them as free car parks.
 
I've never received any direct Highways Agency official information on what to do if you break down on a "smart" death trap.

The AA have will now no longer come to your rescue on a "smart" motorway. I expect the RAC, Green Flag & others will rapidly follow suit. They [AA] will wait at a safe location for you to be recovered to them by the Highways Agency or their contractors.

I'm just waiting for the pranksters to cause some ones death.

When I first got my 500X with TPMS, which I had forgotten about, an unmarked builders van came up along side of me pointing with intensity to the rear wheel of my car as though I possible had a deflating tyre. I could feel no [yet] obvious signs but decided to pull over onto the hard shoulder. I put on my hi vis vest and checked the car. Nothing. These **** heads were taking the **** etc. Pulling the same prank on a "smart" motorway could get somone killed.

Afterwards I initially thought I was a plonker for falling for the prank realising I had TPMS, BUT it was only my assumption that they were referring to to my rear offside tyre. It could have been another real issue not visible or detectable by me at that stage so to ignore it and were it genuine would have been a mistake.
 
I was told if you use the refuge..

Even just to check if vehicle is fit to safely continue...

YOU MUST call the control centre.. and you will be 'Assisted' back into the live lanes
As you have very little 'acceleration space'

This can apparently get you fined via ANPR..

I did a course:
'SMAAARRT motorways' ..as they are apparently termed in South Wales..
tidy :)
 
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people get hit and injured or killed when there is a hard shoulder to stop in, so its common sense that removing them is going to create a greater danger.
But its typical tory money saving madness, rather than invest in making a wider road just use the shoulder no matter the risk.
 
people get hit and injured or killed when there is a hard shoulder to stop in, so its common sense that removing them is going to create a greater danger.
But its typical tory money saving madness, rather than invest in making a wider road just use the shoulder no matter the risk.

The first smart BN motorways were around 2007 when Tony Blair was running the country
So not just a Tory thing

Still a stupid idea using the hard shoulder we should be building miles of new motorway's for the extra capacity
 
The first smart BN motorways were around 2007 when Tony Blair was running the country
So not just a Tory thing

Still a stupid idea using the hard shoulder we should be building miles of new motorway's for the extra capacity

Tony Blair is a tory in a red tie everyone knows that
in 2007 did they use hard shoulder or just have the speed things?
edit seems they did use hard shoulder but its was experimental and speed was reduced to 50mph when hard shoulder was in use, it was raised to 60 mph as an experiment in 2008 with emergency refuges extended to every 800 metres ( how far apart are they now?)
 
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Don't worry "The System is making sure we get HS2 and then all problems will be solved.

Tesla self driving will be great - already shown to be 6 times safer than human drivers. BUT who can afford to buy a Tesla and if we could they'd not be able to make enough of them.

Actually I lied "Autopilot" is nearly an order of magnitude safer than humans.
https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-autopilot-safer-average-driver
 
This link will take you to Highways England's advice, prepare to be underwhelmed.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-drive-on-a-smart-motorway#in-an-emergency-or-breakdown

My experience of using smart motorways is that generally traffic is moving more slowly than normal. This does reduce the risk a little, but I'm still not happy about them. They are just a cheap way of moving more traffic. Creating a new lane and keeping the hard shoulder is significantly more expensive, so a cheap quick fix. If incidents are low, there will be no incentive to upgrade to proper lanes and hard shoulder later. And of course we do not want incidents just to prove a point.

That programme gave some statistics about incidents, but as usual, no comparison with normal motorways. The clowns with the puncture failed to examine the tyre before heading off to buy a tin of goo. The split in the tyre suggests a serious tyre issue, perhaps a 'part-worn' purchase, or they might be in the habit of running over stuff. Does highlight the silliness of not having a spare.
 
Hard shoulders allow you to pull off the road more easily but you still have to get out of the car as anyone straying out of the Lane 1 will take you out. Rear end impacts are common on the old hard shoulders. Hard shoulders are also strewn with tyre shredding debris. The thought of stopping on there only to find you pick up a puncture (or three) is scary to say the least.


The smart motorway refuges/Laybyes are at least tucked away so once in there, the car is much safer from rear ending. That's not to say you can always reach one just saying its not black and white.
 
DaveMcT;4518191 The smart motorway refuges/Laybyes are at least tucked away so once in there said:
they are so small though ypou have to slow to a crawl before you go in one so still a chance of someone going into the back of you, they also look thinner to be so even less room to open drivers door, government say to climb over and get out passenger side but not everyone is fit enough to do that.
 
they are so small though ypou have to slow to a crawl before you go in one so still a chance of someone going into the back of you, they also look thinner to be so even less room to open drivers door, government say to climb over and get out passenger side but not everyone is fit enough to do that.

Fair comment. Its also a traffic offense to drive out of those laybys without Road Womble escort.
 
Its also a traffic offense to drive out of those laybys without Road Womble escort.

Where the F do these rules/regulations/etc come from. I know the old "Ignorance ofo the law is not a defence" adage but I would like to see the official and factual regulations on this "driving out of refuge areas".

Next thing we will have is dual carriage way and motor way "traffic wardens".

"A refuge area can only be occupied for 30 minutes." Ticket applied and the time limit will of course be adjusted to be national response time less 1 minute.

Simple solution. Break down in a live lane and try as hard as you can to NOT recover to a safe zone. This would be so easy to get away with as actually a very high percentage of drivers never look at their dashboard etc. and would drive on regardless.

Lets see if the EU/UK introduce new laws/regulations that if you ignore a dash warning light you will be fined/sent to prison.

Bring It On
 
The volume of info being presented on the modern dashboard/info system screen has now reached ridiculous proportions even in terms of just the warning lights - EPS, ABS, and so on ad infinitum - In my opinion it has now reached the stage where the average driver has very little idea what most of them mean and how they should react/take action if one lights up. For instance a common misconception I run into frequently is that if the wee oil can symbol lights up it means you need to top up the oil!

I like being able to see all these lights and, with my past experience of motor vehicle repair, I probably know what more than half of them mean! but for your average Joe Bloggs I think probably two large highly visible lights - so you couldn't miss them if they illuminate - one in red and one in yellow/orange. The red one would light if something had happened which could cause immediate serious damage and cause immediate breakdown (total loss of oil pressure. boiling/low level of coolant. that sort of thing) The orange would illuminate for anything else for which it would be safe to drive a short distance to reach safe refuge. All you would know at that time is what action to take immediately then, when safe to do so, you could perhaps press another button which would bring up a diagnostic text on a screen such as "Coolant boiling/low coolant, or perhaps, No/low oil pressure, or whatever the recorded problem is. If you were totally lacking in technical knowledge you might just choose to call your breakdown provider at that point. A more enlightened person might see if the coolant could be topped up, or whatever. As things are just now you'd be very lucky to be attracted to any of these displays especially whilst negotiating a busy "Smart" (not so smart in my opinion) motorway.
 
The volume of info being presented on the modern dashboard/info system screen has now reached ridiculous proportions even in terms of just the warning lights - EPS, ABS, and so on ad infinitum - In my opinion it has now reached the stage where the average driver has very little idea what most of them mean and how they should react/take action if one lights up. For instance a common misconception I run into frequently is that if the wee oil can symbol lights up it means you need to top up the oil!

I like being able to see all these lights and, with my past experience of motor vehicle repair, I probably know what more than half of them mean! but for your average Joe Bloggs I think probably two large highly visible lights - so you couldn't miss them if they illuminate - one in red and one in yellow/orange. The red one would light if something had happened which could cause immediate serious damage and cause immediate breakdown (total loss of oil pressure. boiling/low level of coolant. that sort of thing) The orange would illuminate for anything else for which it would be safe to drive a short distance to reach safe refuge. All you would know at that time is what action to take immediately then, when safe to do so, you could perhaps press another button which would bring up a diagnostic text on a screen such as "Coolant boiling/low coolant, or perhaps, No/low oil pressure, or whatever the recorded problem is. If you were totally lacking in technical knowledge you might just choose to call your breakdown provider at that point. A more enlightened person might see if the coolant could be topped up, or whatever. As things are just now you'd be very lucky to be attracted to any of these displays especially whilst negotiating a busy "Smart" (not so smart in my opinion) motorway.

The Jaguar XJ-S had two very large warning lights across the top of the instrument display, one red, the other yellow, which flashed to attract attention to any actual warning light. They were often a real pain due to 1970s unreliability, but nowadyas that should be less of a problem.

We are heading towards Jock's wish with some cars. When some warning lights illluminate, messages pop up, beeps sound. Sadly, the messages are written by engineers, so the average driver will not understand. We need two simple messages. Red - Stop now, Amber - Visit your garage as soon as possible, at least within 12 hours.
Warning lights are aleady coded, with green being information, yellow as something to be awware of and take action soon, and red as do something now. Sadly, that is often not clear from handbooks, and few instructors explain it to new drivers.
Front foglight is green, as can be on anytime.
Rear foglight is yellow as legal rules apply.

Sadly many drivers struggle to grasp the difference between pressure and quantity, so as Jock says, top up the oil when the oil can light tells them to. Think how many times you've seen someone put fuel in, then return from the kiosk with a litre of oil and just pour it in, never touching the dipstick. Must be oil light prompted I think.
This is perhaps why so many cars are losing the dipstick and going electronic oil level check every startup.
 
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