General Main Pulley Bolt Removal - Twin Air

[TTR]

Eh up all
Bit of urgent help required here

im replacing the water pump and cover due to a leak, posted it earlier on here.

I’ve removed the the majority of bolts on the cover housing no issues, now need to get at the little sucker located at 1oclock behind the pulley .

I cannot remove the main pulley bolt !!!!

I’ve tried impact gun, leverage , just not heat as conscious that there’s a main seal in the area.

can anyone confiirm it’s definitely a standard bolt, iE turn it right tightens the bolt , and it’s not a left handed thread ?

Anyone with any expertise at getting these suckers off

Mines a Twin Air if that makes any difference

ive given it some force and im worried it will skip a tooth on the timing chain !!

I ain’t no lightweight and the bloody things hanging in there, must be thread locked I’m guessing. It’s never been off befor.

Thanks in advance all - I need to get this cracked soon

 

[Panda IIs]

Eh up all
Bit of urgent help required here

im replacing the water pump and cover due to a leak, posted it earlier on here.

I’ve removed the the majority of bolts on the cover housing no issues, now need to get at the little sucker located at 1oclock behind the pulley .

I cannot remove the main pulley bolt !!!!

I’ve tried impact gun, leverage , just not heat as conscious that there’s a main seal in the area.

Confirm it’s definitely a standard bolt, iE turn it right tightens the bolt , and it’s not a left handed thread ?

Anyone with any expertise at getting these suckers off

Mines a Twin Air if that makes any difference

Thanks in advance all - I need to get this cracked soon

No Twin Air experience but 1st gear, handy helper with foot on brake, all to prevent any engine rotation (absorbs any energy input from impact leverage etc. plus probably not a good idea to have the engine rotating backwards(?)). Heat does not sound a good idea.

 

[TTR]

Eh up Panda11

Agree pal, but difficult when your on your own

Heat is your friend usually but I ain’t risking the main seal melting to add to the troubles

Sacked it for today start again tomorrow morning

im going for max air pressure on my compressor a couple of strategic belts with an easing tool and then letting rip with the windy gun on full torque again!!!!

All ideas most welcome

 

[jrkitching]

All ideas most welcome

You need to know which way to turn it.

Be absolutely certain as to whether it's a left or right hand thread before you apply any further force to it.

I once ruined a near-irreplaceable non-standard bolt on a vintage vehicle by trying to shortcut this step.

 

[TTR]

Eh up JR

Agree - that’s why I want to confirm first - trawling the Net and on here just to sense check it’s not a left hand thread

Keep info coming please

 

[Panda IIs]

Eh up Panda11

Agree pal, but difficult when your on your own

Heat is your friend usually but I ain’t risking the main seal melting to add to the troubles

Sacked it for today start again tomorrow morning

im going for max air pressure on my compressor a couple of strategic belts with an easing tool and then letting rip with the windy gun on full torque again!!!!

All ideas most welcome

Find a useful piece of something to wedge between the brake and drivers seat (run the engine before hand to have some vacuum available for the servo). If its feasible use the shortest possible hose between compressor and windy gun - you'll be surprised at the difference if you have a long length currently.

Good luck; I would be very surprised if if is a lefthand thread.

Here you go; you can lock the engine through the pulley - ref https://www.scegliauto.com/en/video/vari-altri/tutorial/69198/ unfortunately my Italian is not sufficient but I think he is giving some insight as to which way to turn the nut...

 

[Panda IIs]

Find a useful piece of something to wedge between the brake and drivers seat (run the engine before hand to have some vacuum available for the servo). If its feasible use the shortest possible hose between compressor and windy gun - you'll be surprised at the difference if you have a long length currently.

Good luck; I would be very surprised if if is a lefthand thread.

Here you go; you can lock the engine through the pulley - ref https://www.scegliauto.com/en/video/vari-altri/tutorial/69198/ unfortunately my Italian is not sufficient but I think he is giving some insight as to which way to turn the nut...

View attachment 433840

So funny just watched this guy speculating how that crankshaft locking tool works... @ 2:40ish

 

[TTR]

Eh up

Cracking just banged it into Google translate while watching the vid and it’s a left hand thread !!!!!

he says it unscrews clockwise

Well FFS everything I read was normal bolt !

all I can do is try now

that might help massively

 

[Panda IIs]

Eh up

Cracking just banged it into Google translate while watching the vid and it’s a left hand thread !!!!!

he says it unscrews clockwise

Well FFS everything I read was normal bolt !

all I can do is try now

that might help massively

Brilliant; I knew he was saying something about the clock!

 

[TTR]

Eh up all,

good news and bad

The good news is the pulley bolt flew of this morning after adopting techniques above

I stripped off the pulley and then the remaining bolt on the water pump casing, swapped out pump and fixed casing

Then it dawned on me!!!!

Ive done something I ain’t done in 35 years - I did not mark up the pulley before removal WTF

In my excitement at getting the pi88ing bolt out I simply forgot!!

So rather than push on and cock it up even more I’ve stopped- tools down

How do I get myself out of this pickle please - no TDC or any alignment Marks!!!

I,m thinking I can take plug out nearest pulley, put in screwdriver , rotate engine manually until screwdriver appears at maximum height and then check any marks I can align to get TDC

cannot believe I’ve done this

all ideas very welcome about I un pick this monumental fu85 up I’ve done

when it goes wrong on a job it just keeps going wrong ……..

thanks for all the input on this in advance

 

[Panda IIs]

Eh up all,

good news and bad

The good news is the pulley bolt flew of this morning after adopting techniques above

I stripped off the pulley and then the remaining bolt on the water pump casing, swapped out pump and fixed casing

Then it dawned on me!!!!

Ive done something I ain’t done in 35 years - I did not mark up the pulley before removal WTF

In my excitement at getting the pi88ing bolt out I simply forgot!!

So rather than push on and cock it up even more I’ve stopped- tools down

How do I get myself out of this pickle please - no TDC or any alignment Marks!!!

I,m thinking I can take plug out nearest pulley, put in screwdriver , rotate engine manually until screwdriver appears at maximum height and then check any marks I can align to get TDC

cannot believe I’ve done this

all ideas very welcome about I un pick this monumental fu85 up I’ve done

when it goes wrong on a job it just keeps going wrong ……..

thanks for all the input on this in advance

Well, aside from any balancing issues does it matter? TA has a balance shaft so unless the pulley has any obvious drillings from when (if) it was balanced then I don't think it matters? If you used the hole at 6 o'clock to lock the pulley like our Italian friend in the video then you can get it to roughly the right place if it troubles you? Unless I'm missing something? Imagine you are changing the serpentine belt (which is all, that pulley drives) you don't mark stuff up. Have a beer and relax - deal with it in the morning!

 

[TTR]

Eh up Panda 11

Mmm - I’m thinking on that one

I cannot remember if I locked it out or just went whole hog with the windy

I was that pi88ed off it could have been either but I simply don’t recall locking it out through the pulley inspection/lock hole

first time I’ve fu88ed up this much since I was a kid !!!!

id have been lynched by the blokes on the shop floor - for those who remember those days !!!!

Are you sure as the pulley appears to have marks on the reverse face - looks for the life in me to be timing marks ?

Youre correct I have a S belt to fit at same time - why do I still think it needs to be positioned correctly- what am I missing or over thinking

im having a Hob Goblin - maybe that will help

the character in the picture is this blo88by job

Thanks Panda11 keep the advice. Coming

 

[jrkitching]

why do I still think it needs to be positioned correctly- what am I missing or over thinking

Hard to tell from the italian video, but I'm wondering if the pulley has anything to do with the crankshaft position sensor? I can't think of any other reason why its position would matter.

I'm completely unfamiliar with the TA and have no technical information on it, so my comment could be well wide of the mark.

On most other marques, I'd have thought that if the positioning was critical, it would have been keyed onto the shaft.

 

[Panda IIs]

Eh up Panda 11

Mmm - I’m thinking on that one

I cannot remember if I locked it out or just went whole hog with the windy

I was that pi88ed off it could have been either but I simply don’t recall locking it out through the pulley inspection/lock hole

first time I’ve fu88ed up this much since I was a kid !!!!

id have been lynched by the blokes on the shop floor - for those who remember those days !!!!

Are you sure as the pulley appears to have marks on the reverse face - looks for the life in me to be timing marks ?

Youre correct I have a S belt to fit at same time - why do I still think it needs to be positioned correctly- what am I missing or over thinking

im having a Hob Goblin - maybe that will help

the character in the picture is this blo88by job

View attachment 433908

Thanks Panda11 keep the advice. Coming

Really think you are over thinking it. @jrkitching I don't think crank position sensing is done at this end. Certainly no evidence of a sensor on my TA when I did the belt. Carry on I say!

 

[TTR]

eh up guys

id normally look for a woodruff key or owt as an indicator but all I can spot is what appears to be timing marks on the reverse of the pulley which is odd for a start,

I cannot see how the CSPS could interact with the pulley - but hey it’s Italian

I think I’ll belt n braces , take out plug rotate , see if owt aligns that I think should - pray to the spanner gods - reassemble and turn over by hand before I go for a full start .

just keep the thoughts coming it all helps and I don’t want to f8ck up a great car .
Had it since new

 

[Panda IIs]

eh up guys

id normally look for a woodruff key or owt as an indicator but all I can spot is what appears to be timing marks on the reverse of the pulley which is odd for a start,

I cannot see how the CSPS could interact with the pulley - but hey it’s Italian

I think I’ll belt n braces , take out plug rotate , see if owt aligns that I think should - pray to the spanner gods - reassemble and turn over by hand before I go for a full start .

just keep the thoughts coming it all helps and I don’t want to f8ck up a great car .
Had it since new

Nah; don't risk something dropping in the plug hole. You know it's a 360degree twin, so both pistons will be at the top of the bore (how will you know which one is at TDC ?).

Take a step back and have a look at the Italian video again - or wait till Monday and ring the Fiat Workshop in Royston - I'm sure Jamie or one of the guys will set your mind to rest.

 

[TTR]

Eh up

got,parts from them funnily enough

might just give them a tinkle before I fire it round

 

[The Panda Nut]

eh up guys

id normally look for a woodruff key or owt as an indicator but all I can spot is what appears to be timing marks on the reverse of the pulley which is odd for a start,

I cannot see how the CSPS could interact with the pulley - but hey it’s Italian

I think I’ll belt n braces , take out plug rotate , see if owt aligns that I think should - pray to the spanner gods - reassemble and turn over by hand before I go for a full start .

just keep the thoughts coming it all helps and I don’t want to f8ck up a great car .
Had it since new

Sounds like the pulley is a parts bin special. Marks on the back are unlikley to be used for much as seeing them with the enging running isnt going to happen. Timing marks are to set the relationship between camshaft and crank shaft or to mark TDC and thats just a crank funtion. If there is no keyway Im with Pandall. Take a photo of the marks and tryand put things back as they were if possible??

 

[Vic20]

A quick way to tell, is the pulley and belt toothed to prevent them slipping? If not, there is clearly no timing relevance to it and it is only for auxiliary units such as AC and Alternator. I'm sure all timing is done by the engine's internal chain.

The 'timing marks' on the pulley you refer to are likely just drill holes where small quantities of metal are removed to balance that part.

 

[TTR]

Eh up

vic20 - fair point and from what I can gather no relationship between the pulley and serp belt , plus it’s chain driven timing on the TA so by removing the water pump I cannot figure any mechanical relationship that would influence timing or position of the pulley wheel.

panda11 - agree with you on this and i think it’s a generic pulley they use

on that basis I rebuilt part tonight- will finish tomorrow night and fill with coolant leave it overnight again to test for leaks after running it up to temp.

can’t say I’m over confident but equally not enough to stop me cracking on.

will keep this thread updated - cheers for all input it helps when unraveling my thoughts and making informed decisions