Technical Koni damper experiment thread

[babbo_umbro]

I was thinking the same thing as I would have to get someone else to take the front stocks off for me if I ever wanted to adjust them anyway. Not a job I would really want to tackle myself

No - the fronts are adjustable in situ via a knob on the top of the damper's central shaft - remember to remove the knob after use (as the actress....) as on some cars it fouls the bonnet when you shut it. It's the rears that use the older "fully compress and twist" method - it seems as though it's less trouble to take the rears off - very simple job - than to try to adjust them on the car as bits of car get in the way.

 

[KozmoNaut]

I can imagine that it would be all over the place! It's exactly the opposite to what eveyone else is suggesting. The combination of 100HP springs and softer dampers could be a disaster on certain roads..

The dampers can be softer overall, but still have better high-speed damping (damper speed, not car speed), which is the Achilles' heel of most OEM dampers.

 

[babbo_umbro]

The dampers can be softer overall, but still have better high-speed damping (damper speed, not car speed), which is the Achilles' heel of most OEM dampers.

Do you mean that the dampers can offer varying resistance to movement depending on the rate at which the suspension is moving? That must be right and, as you say, OEM dampers on cheap cars are poor in this respect - I assume that the Koni FSD attempts to raise this nonlinearity to another level. Unfortunately they're not available for the Panda - another reason why I wondered in earlier posts if the new Panda would have identical suspension mountings and so on as the 500 - and there seems to be some consensus that they are not quite as good for handling as a Sport on the right adjustment, though they offer a better ride.

 

[KozmoNaut]

Do you mean that the dampers can offer varying resistance to movement depending on the rate at which the suspension is moving?

Exactly.

Dampers work by basically pushing oil from one chamber to another through a restricted opening. So you have viscosity, flow rate, turbulence and a whole host of other factors to take into account. High-end dampers such as Koni are more carefully engineered and are more expensive as a consequence.

 

[babbo_umbro]

Exactly.

Dampers work by basically pushing oil from one chamber to another through a restricted opening. So you have viscosity, flow rate, turbulence and a whole host of other factors to take into account. High-end dampers such as Koni are more carefully engineered and are more expensive as a consequence.

I think we're both confirming what we both already know.

 

[KozmoNaut]

I think we're both confirming what we both already know.

We're furiously agreeing with each other

Fortunately for me, the standard Panda suspension seems a lot more sorted than the 100HP suspension, the stiffer springs must really stress the dampers.

 

[Dan Friel]

Front Koni STR.T dampers ordered from DC Performance - under £150. Will provide an update on delivery times and any damping improvements experienced (although may be a couple of weeks until they're fitted).

 

[W23AJH 100HP]

No - the fronts are adjustable in situ via a knob on the top of the damper's central shaft - remember to remove the knob after use (as the actress....) as on some cars it fouls the bonnet when you shut it. It's the rears that use the older "fully compress and twist" method - it seems as though it's less trouble to take the rears off - very simple job - than to try to adjust them on the car as bits of car get in the way.

Ah I wasn't aware of that, I fitted the rear ones myself and that was a piece of cake. I will probably just save up and get the adjustable ones and fit a set of spax 25mm lowering springs at the same time.

 

[Cinqster355]

I can imagine that it would be all over the place! It's exactly the opposite to what eveyone else is suggesting. The combination of 100HP springs and softer dampers could be a disaster on certain roads..

Interesting info on the Koni STRs.. this is something that I'll definitely consider for the front (being half the price of Sports). Having had the Sports on the rear for a while, I definitely think they could be wound down from the "1 turn" setting that they're currently on.

I just purchased the Str.t rears as I just inspected my rear end and noticed the top bush on the N.S.R shock has failed and is now knocking badly. If they turn out to be good I will get the fronts to match it all up. I will certainly report back.

 

[Cinqster355]

I just fitted my Koni Str.t rear dampers as my standard ones were worn. I also changed the tyres to 195/50/15 (upping the standard profile 1 from 45 to 50. The tyres made the biggest difference in overall comfort but after only 10 miles on the new rear dampers I can report a worthwhile & noticable improvement over stock setup (I have retained the original springs).

Yes my dampers were worn so the ride gets worse over time but the pogo effect seems to have gone, the ride is still firm but driving the car over a poor road surface where pogoing and crashy bumps etc occur has gone. The combination of better tyres and the Koni dampers has made the ride alot better (comfort wise) and certainly I am happy with it.

The fronts will be on my to do list now I know they are worth the effort. The front is still noticably boingy! so putting the Koni Str.t non adjustables on the front should balance everything up nice.

Overall, worth changing the shocks if you are sick of the harsh standard ride (I was even considering selling the little beast!).

I will report back once I have done some more miles.

 

[Wurz]

Hi Cinqster....I've replied on the other post but yes, you will find replacing the front dampers as well will vastly improve matters and I am well pleased with my setup now I have put a few miles (& smiles) on. Like you I was tempted to sell but not now! A tamed Panda with oomph!

 

[Cinqster355]

Koni STR.Ts fronts now ordered today as well. Having driven the car with just the new rear dampers on (to see if it was worth it) I can see the fronts will make a nice difference as well.

I used to think the front was ok and the rear was poor, now having driven a good few more miles today the front is now noticably poorer than the rear validating the Koni STR.T dampers as a worth while investment for my Panda 100hp. Still a very firm ride but pogo free.

 

[Dan Friel]

Front Koni STR.T dampers ordered from DC Performance - under £150. Will provide an update on delivery times and any damping improvements experienced (although may be a couple of weeks until they're fitted).

The Koni STR.T dampers have arrived this morning. That took three weeks - but holidays in Holland (direct order) may have contributed. Will be fitted on Thursday.

 

[Cinqster355]

The Koni STR.T dampers have arrived this morning. That took three weeks - but holidays in Holland (direct order) may have contributed. Will be fitted on Thursday.

Congratulations, my order for the front dampers has gone tits up, the parcel arrived Monday and only 1 damper was in there... Still, the supplier DC Performance has been pretty good and are on the case to get the missing one to me. :bang:

 

[Dan Friel]

Koni STR.T's now on the front. Makes a significant difference, front end is feels tied down and much more precise. It is obviously firmer than stock, but on the roads I drive, that's no problem at all. Last adjustment will be to tune down the rear koni sports from one turn setting to half a turn. If there's big changes, I'll update.

 

[airlog]

An update on my increasingly frustrating damper experiment. I fitted the yellow dampers some months back (both front and rear)to my '57 plate 100HP. Recently I have been hearing an irritating rattle from the front righthand side which I put down to wear on the drop links. Having taken the day off work I merrily arrive at my local Fiat specialist only to find that Fiat changed the droplink design in 2009 from the both connectors being on one side to being opposed. And because the top connecting point on the Konis is not angled like the OEM stut the new droplinks won't fit (unless the car is only driven in a straight line - the slightest turn from straight ahead means the droplink hits the strut). So a word of caution to everyone who has fitted them.

My query then is to those who have fitted the STR.T front dampers - can these accept the opposed droplinks ? One would presume so as a more recent Koni release. Any feedback much appreciated.

 

[Cinqster355]

My query then is to those who have fitted the STR.T front dampers - can these accept the opposed droplinks ? One would presume so as a more recent Koni release. Any feedback much appreciated.

I am still waiting for my front right STR.T damper to arrive, once I get it I will be fitting them both so I will have a look and take few photos for you.

 

[airlog]

Further to my earlier post please see attached photographs. The new opposed droplink design is obvious versus the old. The second photograph is of the OEM front damper with the droplink mounting point facing upwards. Once again it is clear that it is angled and attached mid way of the width of the damper. The Koni's mounting point in comparison is attached to the front of the stut and is a straight bracket. This plus the additional diameter of the Koni versus the OEM damper means the droplinks won't fit.

I have relayed this info to Koni UK and have been happy with the response so far. The matter has been referred back to the Netherlands for the R&D / Tech departments to investigate. I shall post back once I hear more.

 

[babbo_umbro]

This is all very valuable. Have I got this right? (My 100HP has a 58 plate.)

The Koni strut is OK with pre-59 plate drop links? Is the old-style drop link still available as a spare for pre-59 cars? Drop link replacement appears to be inevitable at some point so the last point is important. Surely the change of design has altered the geometry - so does the Fiat strut change - ie different part number - post-59 plate to compensate or is the difference too small to matter? Thinking about it a bit more - does the Koni difference alter the geometry significantly?

 

[babbo_umbro]

I suppose I mean anti-roll bar leverage rather than "geometry" in previous post.