General Is the Panda reliable

[koalar]

How often do we hear

It's just a fiat thing

My other cars never do this

And so on

Yes they have common fail points
Sticking clutch slave
Broken spigot on later thermostat
And so on

And are now over 10 years old, were originally cheap cars and more than likely has had at least some servicing skipped or missed

Others will have had servicing done wrong causing problems down the line

I took a 1.1 06 past 200,000 miles and had every receipt, The only failures upto me owning it were a heater blower motor, plus service items, even the suspension ams were original at over 10 years old. I had an ignition switch fail and the rear shoes fail,

To say things like the rear cylinder have leaked but my other car hasn't may be true

But there are only a few manufactures of brake parts originally fitted

Fiat
Vauxhall
CITROËN
VW
And many more

All share common suppliers

Bendix
Lucus
Bosch

And so on


Do we really think they are going to supply substandard parts to fiat when it's there own reputation on the line, or worse sued in a crash


The perseption is made worse if you are unlucky to have a failure, To you it's inconvenient and annoying but it is a sample size of one


Missed coolant changes kills seal in the thermostat, is that Fiat's fault

I have had failures on every make of car I have owned from high end Mercedes to cheaper Fiats, often seals and bearings that wear and fail, at least the parts are cheaper

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Just on 'Do we really think they are going to supply substandard parts to fiat when it's there own reputation on the line, or worse sued in a crash'

OEM suppliers make parts to the specs requested by manufacturers.

 

[AndyRKett]

Do we really think they are going to supply substandard parts to fiat when it's there own reputation on the line, or worse sued in a crash

well, Yes and No. The companies that make these parts are not going to make a "substandard" part but they are bound to make parts that conform to the specs of the manufacture. This means if there is some inherent design floor in the part from fiat then it will be repeated in the patent parts made by the other manufacturers. That is not to say that it falls below the specification and therefore does not open up the company to law suit, it just means that there may be an issue with the "cheaper" parts made for fiat, than a similar part made for another manufacturer.

The perception is made worse if you are unlucky to have a failure, To you it's inconvenient and annoying but it is a sample size of one

This really gets my back up and works both ways. How many times I have heard "my {insert friend or relative here} had {insert car brand and model here} and it was the most unreliable car ever". Then combine it with some other people who also have a vested interest in knocking that particular make or model and now you have people clubbing together to confirm their own biases..... that said they probably know dozens of people who own cars from that manufacturer and don't have anything to say about them because they just work.

Fiat do make cars that through subjective analysis come out as less reliable than other brands. Often highlighted in the surveys of Warranty companies who are looking at a large amount of there own data on which to base their decision.

That does not differentiate between an enthusiast who does lots of preventative maintenance or knows the difference between what are service items or things expected to fail after a certain time. It looks at a large number of cars bought, and how often they break down. Fiats tend to be cheap and if you ignore the enthusiast of this forum, they tend to be bought cheaply by people who do not have a big budget and so will get work done only when it needs doing (reactive rather than proactive)
Therefore I have no doubts that Fiats do not rank well in reliability studies but that does not mean they can't be reliable. With the right maintenance and care any car can be reliable (within reason)

Usually people's response to "Fiat is unreliable" is 'Whataboutism' That is to say rather than acknowledge the failings of fiat they will deflect this by trying to argue about the reliability of something else "yeah well my uncle had a ford and the engine exploded" thats very nice but has nothing to do with Fiat's reliability an and one ford exploding means nothing in the many hundreds of thousands of fords sold that don't have problems. Plenty of cars don't have any problems at all including Fiats. So my Fiat didn't blow up and that car did means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. but people become blinkered and won't look at the wider picture.

 

[irc]

I think Pandas are pretty much as reliable as any other car, and more reliable than many. The "run on a budget" but still badly serviced ones can have failures, but conversely they can be put right for a relatively small price.
What usually kills them is "run on NO budget" or stupidity ("oh yeah, the temperature gauge keeps going up in traffic, and it steams a bit").
And being jacked up on the sills.
Otherwise, they do seem to be pretty robust and very cheap to run.
Every 169 Panda still on the road has probably exceeded its design specification as regards longevity.

 

[Twotone2]

I‘ve never owned a Fiat car until now and can say I love it (Panda 4X4 2023) however I have had a Citroen Nemo van since 2014 which was bought new and I’ve have had decent reliability out of it and can’t complain but it’s only done 54000 miles but I bought the Panda because of the previous car which was a Ford Fiesta zetec on a 2019 plate on 13,000 miles and the clutch went (£440 cost to replace) back in June so we traded it in for the Panda.

I’ve been driving for over 40 years and have owned cars since about 1982 and have never had to have a clutch changed ant with only 13k miles on the clock there was no guarantee that the replacement would last either given the poor review regarding Ford gearboxes and clutches failing I actually read one post from a woman who had a clutch fail after 6000 miles and the replacement only lasted about the same again.

We’ve had Fords previously all Fiestas and mainly reliable but parts prices can be expensive @ £120 for a wing mirror plus painting for example my biggest gripe with Ford though was Ford Credit who have shocking customer service don’t think I’d ever buy another Ford again such was the poor experience with FC.

 

[koalar]

OEM suppliers make parts to the specs requested by manufacturers.

Yes

But they don't want warranty claims

It's normally seals and bearing that go

These are generic parts of the shelf not made for the supplier such as lucas or the manufacturer such as fiat

And fitted to every make and model

 

[irc]

I think Pandas are pretty much as reliable as any other car, and more reliable than many. The "run on a budget" but still badly serviced ones can have failures, but conversely they can be put right for a relatively small price.
What usually kills them is "run on NO budget" or stupidity ("oh yeah, the temperature gauge keeps going up in traffic, and it steams a bit").
And being jacked up on the sills.
Otherwise, they do seem to be pretty robust and very cheap to run.
Every 169 Panda still on the road has probably exceeded its design specification as regards longevity.

Forgot to mention the other major killer of Pandas...
Shockingly inept mechanics, who can't (or are too arrogant to) follow simple, well known and documented procedures for basic maintenance tasks. Usually just an annoyance but sometimes pushes the car out of budget, and certainly increases perception of "unreliability"

Some of my recent favourites are:
- Bad Cam Belt installs, leading to bad running and warning lights. Even on 2004 cars, which could probably be done by a blind chimp with an adjustable spanner. Later ones slightly more complicated but still not needing MENSA card.
- Clutch changes followed almost immediately by input seal failure (not bothering to check input bearing)
- Incorrect coolant bleeding
- Fitting the wrong cam belt/water pump for the engine version, so that belt teeth do not fit pulleys correctly.
- Re-using a front hub nut after removal
- Overtightening wheel nuts past the point where studs are affected
- Overfilled gearbox after clutch change (how did they even do that?)
- Replacing battery when earth lead was physically broken.
- Replacing earth lead and failing to properly bolt to gearbox.
- Adjusting tracking so steering wheel is not straight. Then trying to adjust it and making things worse. Finally realising rear bushes had completely failed, making tracking adjustments pointless anyway.
- Claiming that a failing alternator belt was imminent cam chain failure, and quoting £1400 to repair. (Belt was expensive at about £12, normally about £6)
Claiming steering rack has a leak, and needs replacing urgently
Failing MOT on top bushes not secured when raised. Hmmmm....
And many many others.
And not all from back-street garages.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Yes

But they don't want warranty claims

It's normally seals and bearing that go

These are generic parts of the shelf not made for the supplier such as lucas or the manufacturer such as fiat

And fitted to every make and model

Not sure the point you're making?

Warranty claims are the manufacturer's bag unless a part is defective, in which case they may be able to pass it on to the parts supplier.

 

[varesecrazy]

The online surveys I've read...

Least Reliable. : Fiat in top 3

Cheapest to fix. : Fiat in top 3

They are"cheap". Cars... People buy it like a Dishwasher.. Looks ok.. Will use it until it Breaks (AND often 18th birthday presents..)

Whereas other people buy a German.. Or whatever car and treat their 'investment' to 4 +. Years of main dealer servicing

It costs money... But they are happy because it is 'right'.


We are all aware of the FIAT dealer network, few established dealers.. So little longterm product knowledge

 

[koalar]

Not sure the point you're making?

Warranty claims are the manufacturer's bag unless a part is defective, in which case they may be able to pass it on to the parts supplier.

Correct manufacturers bag

Staff to book the car in
Staff to order the order the part
Stores staff
Accounts
Mechanics
Work shop space
Electricity
And so on


Do they get it right all the time, no

Do recalls calls and warrenty claim cost them money, absolutely,

Just on 'Do we really think they are going to supply substandard parts to fiat when it's there own reputation on the line, or worse sued in a crash'

OEM suppliers make parts to the specs requested by manufacturers.

Fiat would be daft to specify anything that was substandard or not up to the job, as it would cost them millions/billions in the long run, if they specified it the can not claim it back from the supplier

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Correct manufacturers bag

Staff to book the car in
Staff to order the order the part
Stores staff
Accounts
Mechanics
Work shop space
Electricity
And so on


Do they get it right all the time, no

Do recalls calls and warrenty claim cost them money, absolutely,





Fiat would be daft to specify anything that was substandard or not up to the job, as it would cost them millions/billions in the long run, if they specified it the can not claim it back from the supplier

Happens all the time with manufacturers as they seek to tread a fine line between cost and quality. A certain level of warranty claims is inbuilt/costed in. Why? Because to avoid them you'd have to over-spec to an unacceptable degree.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I have had a few Fiats and taking the 5 newest ones 2 new, 1 virtually new and two a year from new I have covered in these 290,000 miles. Breakdowns at the road side 0. Warranty claims ) on the new cars 2 on the 1 year old ones. Unshceduled service requirements limited to brake discs rusting which annoys me A LOT, but this has also been an issue on every other new car and company car I have had for a long time. Worst culprit by far was Renaul Clio c 1978.
If the Panda is given reasonable care I think its a definite yes they are reliable, but no of course perfect. The other issue is disintegrating air con condenser, but age makes this at least understandable.

 

[AndyRKett]

Correct manufacturers bag

Staff to book the car in
Staff to order the order the part
Stores staff
Accounts
Mechanics
Work shop space
Electricity
And so on


Do they get it right all the time, no

Do recalls calls and warrenty claim cost them money, absolutely,





Fiat would be daft to specify anything that was substandard or not up to the job, as it would cost them millions/billions in the long run, if they specified it the can not claim it back from the supplier

Given the quantities involved. If Fiat ordered 100,000 oil sumps and of those 100,000 say 200, came back in with in 3 years for warranty replacements, then it is unlikely that fiat would send those parts back to the manufacturer or make a claim off the manufacturer, it doesn't work the same in manufacturing as it does in the real world. If the returns or failures are high, then fiat would be having words with that supplier and may do a deal to "put right" the problem demand all future parts get an extra coat of rust treatment, or some FOC parts, but if the manufacturer has made them to spec then the issue is still with fiat not the maker of that part. and if fiat didn't spec rust treatment then they will expect a certain amount of parts to fail once they get out into the public.

 

[koalar]

Sumps under warrenty I suspect will be virtuly nil I suspect, no proof

Would be handy if we had access to parts fitted under warranty

Surly most if any will be kicked out as ether damage or lack of maintenance

Check for under body corrosion is part of the annual service

They don't get that bad in a year

 

[koalar]

69HP transmech vs blueprint clutch

Transmech bad reviews
Blueprint good reviews

A couple of years ago when I was looking they were identical

transmech is very cheaply sold by euro car parts and other cheap online stores

Sell 100 and have 1 failure is just one person to complain on forums and review sites

Sell 10,000 and have 100 is just the same failure rate but now there 100x more complaints

 

[koalar]

The more complex the vehicle the likely it is to go wrong

This favours the Panda without aircon or blue and me

As new models or engines come out you will often see a manufacture go down the charts until problems are ironed out

Making reliability and satisfaction survey at best err unreliable and often misleading

 

[AndyRKett]

Sumps under warrenty I suspect will be virtuly nil I suspect, no proof

I only bring up the Sump because it genuinely was a problem area for fiat and did have a large number of in warranty claims I will refer you to this video for a reference

The more complex the vehicle the likely it is to go wrong

I am going to add an ammendment to this. The more complex the vehicle, the more potential there is for things to go wrong, but that doesn't mean it will.

Modern cars are infinitely more complicated than cars from the past but arguable are also infinitely better made and more reliable.

If Fiat build a car and they have 10 reliable electronics modules in the car, then having 20 reliable electronic models in a higher spec model doesn't mean there is double the likelihood of one of them breaking down. If something is made well. Then it will last well.

If fiat cut costs, trim the fat and generally penny pinch on every car then the likelihood of break down is much higher than something that is made without cutting corners. So you could argue a cheap car is more likely to break down, and this has been shown in cars in the last 10-20 years where multiple manufacturers will use the same engine, but notably the cheaper cars tend to break down more.

 

[varesecrazy]

If fiat cut costs, trim the fat and generally penny pinch on every car then the likelihood of break down is much higher than something that is made without cutting corners. So you could argue a cheap car is more likely to break down, and this has been shown in cars in the last 10-20 years where multiple manufacturers will use the same engine, but notably the cheaper cars tend to break down more.

500 hatch wiring...

 

[koalar]

500 hatch wiring...

Not a panda

Did it ever get sorted, I can't see the official bulletin for the 500 unlike the panda which are all online

 

[AndyRKett]

500 hatch wiring...

and the door handles. they didn't address that one till the facelift in 2016 at which point the car was nearly 10 years old.