Technical Front suspension knock?

[DaveMcT]

I was really dissapointed. With those bushes I was expecting the arms to last a good while, but there are complete toast with about 18months and 12k miles on them.

I would never waste my time on them again.

F*** Mine must have 10,000 by now but still seem ok. At least I'll know what to do next time.

As others have said the bottom arm castings are same on all models.

Ordinary 169 Panda bottom arms are £37.80 from S4P. The 100HP version is £73.64 (same prices as eBay)

However, S4P have rear bushes in the 100HP listing for just £6.65. I might grab a pair for when the ones on the car go pear shaped.

https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=13528

 

[dac69er]

The only problem is you could go to all the effort of replacing the bushes and the balljoints may be knackered or not far off being knackered.

It's not the hardest job in the world, I just hate having to pay to get the tracking done at £30-£40 a pop.

You may be lucky and I was just unlucky.

 

[koalar]

The only problem is you could go to all the effort of replacing the bushes and the balljoints may be knackered or not far off being knackered.

It's not the hardest job in the world, I just hate having to pay to get the tracking done at £30-£40 a pop.

You may be lucky and I was just unlucky.

I can guarantee, the new and old arm will be the same. Far closer than any alignment could test or measure

I was in a garage a few years ago when they were charging a customer for being 0.01 degree out of spec on toe on one wheel. But the other front wheel was pointing in the same direction but just in spec. By having a TV screen with one red box they were able to charge a customer for unnecessary work.

make me :bang: when customers are fleeced.

 

[dac69er]

I can guarantee, the new and old arm will be the same. Far closer than any alignment could test or measure

I was in a garage a few years ago when they were charging a customer for being 0.01 degree out of spec on toe on one wheel. But the other front wheel was pointing in the same direction but just in spec. By having a TV screen with one red box they were able to charge a customer for unnecessary work.

make me :bang: when customers are fleeced.

It pulled to the left and the steering wheel was wonky so it was definitely out after swapping the arms.

I have a set of Dunlop alignment gauges so I would normally do it myself, but the track rod ends wouldn't undo for adjustment and needed heat applied. Easier to just take it to get the tracking done as it was getting late in the day.

I agree that the arms seem to line up exactly when you put them in top of each other, but it 100% effected the tracking when swapping them.

 

[koalar]

It pulled to the left and the steering wheel was wonky so it was definitely out after swapping the arms.

I have a set of Dunlop alignment gauges so I would normally do it myself, but the track rod ends wouldn't undo for adjustment and needed heat applied. Easier to just take it to get the tracking done as it was getting late in the day.

I agree that the arms seem to line up exactly when you put them in top of each other, but it 100% effected the tracking when swapping them.

weird

I change arms or bushes every couple of years on all sorts of vehicles for the last 30 years. Vast majority arms. I did just under 200K in a sierra alone. They are only good for 20-40K. So far I have never had a problem.

The only problems I have is with laser alignment. Not only with my car. I not blaming laser alignment it depends on the monkey using it. The old fashion slip gauges were much harder to get wrong plus took into account wear in other components. If I saw a set cheap I would get them and never bother with a garage alignment again.

 

[DaveMcT]

My Austin Mini 1000 never saw a garage for tracking alignment. I set them approximately with a tape measure then used tyre tread temperature for fine tuning.

Inside edge warm = toe out
Outside edge warm = toe in

My 100HP has always pulled slightly to the left. Laser tracking showed the back axle is correct in all planes but still it pulls. The tyre tread check showed it needed toe in. A quick adjustment and no more pull to the left. Technically it's tracking is miles off, but the tyres are wearing evenly.

I had the same problem with seized track rod adjusting nuts. The fix is to replace the inner arms. You need a special cam action grip tool, but it's not a hard job. Saying that, goodness help us if the rack ever needs replacing. It looks like an engine out job.

 

[koalar]

tracking as in toe adjustment in itself does not make a car pull to one side.

hypothetically everything else is correct but toe is miles out. Sitting in the car looking ahead the left wheel is pointing straight ahead and right wheel is pointing 10 degrees to the right the car is going to turn to the right

now turn the steering wheel anti clockwise until the left wheel is pointing 5 degrees to the left. The right will be pointing 5 degrees to the right and if you take out the fuse for the power steering the car will track in a straight line. Put the fuse back in and the steering will try and centre itself by turning the wheel back clockwise.


now if you undo both track rod ends, turn one in an the other out by the same amount until the steering wheel is at its centre position. Both wheels would still be pointing 5 degrees out but now when you replace the fuse the car will still track true

The tracking is still miles out. If I line up the left wheel straight ahead the right wheel would still point 10 degrees to the right.



This is exactly what most garages when you take a car in complaining of pulling to on side. They undo both sides move one in the other out and hope for the best.

 

[DaveMcT]

I get that, but can't understand how the back axle can laser check with both wheels in line and not angled in any way. If the axle was shifted forwards at one side, the wheels would appear toe out one side and toe in at the other. Or just one wheel would show a different toe. There is none of that.

The Mk3 Passat I owned in the 1990s would pull left. The garage said oh they all do that when the tracking is out. Tracking reset and the pull stopped. I said, "Surely it depends which way the tracking is out". It seemed not they always pulled left. Golf he said doesn't pull on bad tracking just the Mk3 Passat.

Odd I know and don't ask me if that applies to the Panda. I don't have a clue. But setting mine with a smidge (tech term) of toe-in has solved it's desire to pull left.
I had fully expected to be shimming the back axle, but the misalignment (if any) is not enough to see on a laser rig so where would you start?

 

[Jockcl500]

I get that, but can't understand how the back axle can laser check with both wheels in line and not angled in any way. If the axle was shifted forwards at one side, the wheels would appear toe out one side and toe in at the other. Or just one wheel would show a different toe. There is none of that.

The Mk3 Passat I owned in the 1990s would pull left. The garage said oh they all do that when the tracking is out. Tracking reset and the pull stopped. I said, "Surely it depends which way the tracking is out". It seemed not they always pulled left. Golf he said doesn't pull on bad tracking just the Mk3 Passat.

Odd I know and don't ask me if that applies to the Panda. I don't have a clue. But setting mine with a smidge (tech term) of toe-in has solved it's desire to pull left.
I had fully expected to be shimming the back axle, but the misalignment (if any) is not enough to see on a laser rig so where would you start?

The always pull to the left, is mostly down the camber of the road, if the tracking is out it will go naturally with the camber.

 

[koalar]

The always pull to the left, is mostly down the camber of the road, if the tracking is out it will go naturally with the camber.

correct

its only small but always present.

 

[DaveMcT]

A long gentle left curve on dual roads will go hands off. The same long curve to the right needs a pull on the wheel. It matters not if you are in the right or the left lane. It's not enough to fret over but it is annoying, because the 1.2 Dynamic has never pulled before or after the 500 axle swap.