Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[theoneandonly]

I agree with most of your analysis,however,two points: you say that the latest software ecu version for manual x mission is v28.This is not what Fiat tech bulletin says.It says both auto and manual should be v32.Which would make sense if update alters fueling parameters.Also if Dpf regeneration over fueling is altered with new software update wouldn’t it be possible to see a variation in Dpf regeneration temperature by testing a before and after update with scanner?
Just my thoughts.

Assuming you mean Service news 10-23-19 dated 20/11/19 the latest software version for manuals without issues is V28. to be updated you need problems. I was refused updates from 2 Dealers without the correct error codes being present. I doubt if all dealers are as concerned if the software allows it and the price is right. So both V28 and V32 are the latest software possible on a manual (V28 without problems V32 with).

AS to regen temperature Problem is we don't know precise charecteristics they are trying to control in regen and precisely what went wrong, note other conciderations. the temperature profile of regen between early and late software versions may vary max temperature due to fuel injected mm3/injection or extendend period or total energy intake.
If you look at

DPF Regeneration

Ive been using Multiecuscan for a while now and along with my monthly blast up and down M1 have been doing health checks. Taking reading of various PIDs under standard conditions. I came across a measurement that tells you when regen is occuring...

www.fiatforum.com

i caught a regen in process and also show the DPF temperatures. If more of such data was available to understand natural variation of use we might be able to repeat after update and see any possible difference. Such data would be more valuable than the Average duration/ temperature of last 5 regens (note in MES 5 regens may be one ?) The problem is we have no data on an engine prior to going awol (pre and post Awol). In fact we dont even have the version number prior to update due to refurb (one or 2 examples only). If you have any data to contribute i will be more than happy to look at it.

 

[Hank25]

Assuming you mean Service news 10-23-19 dated 20/11/19 the latest software version for manuals without issues is V28. to be updated you need problems. I was refused updates from 2 Dealers without the correct error codes being present. I doubt if all dealers are as concerned if the software allows it and the price is right. So both V28 and V32 are the latest software possible on a manual (V28 without problems V32 with).

AS to regen temperature Problem is we don't know precise charecteristics they are trying to control in regen and precisely what went wrong, note other conciderations. the temperature profile of regen between early and late software versions may vary max temperature due to fuel injected mm3/injection or extendend period or total energy intake.
If you look at

DPF Regeneration

Ive been using Multiecuscan for a while now and along with my monthly blast up and down M1 have been doing health checks. Taking reading of various PIDs under standard conditions. I came across a measurement that tells you when regen is occuring...

www.fiatforum.com

i caught a regen in process and also show the DPF temperatures. If more of such data was available to understand natural variation of use we might be able to repeat after update and see any possible difference. Such data would be more valuable than the Average duration/ temperature of last 5 regens (note in MES 5 regens may be one ?) The problem is we have no data on an engine prior to going awol (pre and post Awol). In fact we dont even have the version number prior to update due to refurb (one or 2 examples only). If you have any data to contribute i will be more than happy to look at it.

Sorry you are incorrect,both manual and comformatic before updates is up to v28 and both boxes with updates is v32.
It clearly states this in the service bulletin you mentioned above !

 

[theoneandonly]

Sorry you are incorrect,both manual and comformatic before updates is up to v28 and both boxes with updates is v32.
It clearly states this in the service bulletin you mentioned above !

Whats your point? How would you interpretate the need to change software version.

 

[Serrow225]

Afraid its all real. Time fome some reading

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

The best way forward is get multiecuscan upand running then get some live data and then publish csv file here or pm me and I will analyse it znd zdvise.

Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis.

This was originally written to help one person with his Ducato totally new to MES to start saving data. it is not an exhaustive manual nor intended to be. Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis. Open...

www.fiatforum.com

There are other users in Oz that may better advise where to get adaptors and obd connections for multiecuscan

managed to do a run out this morning , living in south London not many fast roads , so cant do a motorway blast . but if I've got this correct the LPEGR valve is not mixing air /gas , its on or off and the temp LP side is to low ...... blocked cooler ? and it picked up a pending P402 on scan after drive .

 

[Fredastaire]

Description sounds blocked. We'll have to await @theoneandonly to examine the csv file.

 

[theoneandonly]

managed to do a run out this morning , living in south London not many fast roads , so cant do a motorway blast . but if I've got this correct the LPEGR valve is not mixing air /gas , its on or off and the temp LP side is to low ...... blocked cooler ? and it picked up a pending P402 on scan after drive .

Here are results from the 2 runs
injectors and O2 sensors look fine the turbo lag between desired and actual presure indicate a turbo issue, probably a sticking actuator or turbo solenoid valve (test methods are in the guides area.)

The LPEGR valve generally operates min to max the max cooler temperature of 64C is very low.
Both indicate a blocked lpegr cooler.

I done the exhaust wipe and it's slightly sooty,but garage has told me DPF is fine?

The differential DPF is quite low is it good or is it low because the dpf is cracked. Did they split the dpf from the exhaust in order to examine as per service notes. Time to wipe the exhaust pipe with kitchen roll again.

 

[Serrow225]

Thanks , it's a glass half full or half empty!.
LP EGR cooler will be changed next week.
The DPF I'm sure has a crack as I've been doing exhaust wipes for every run for a few months and it can be very light to thicker depending on speed /time ..so not sure what to do on that ?
Turbo issue was a surprise, sensor was changed last garage visit, so another did they just do it and not even check it on diagnostic.
Thought my days laying under a motor on a Sunday where over , apparently not .

 

[Serrow225]

Ok I've just been under van and can just barley see turbo actuator link arm , it moves manually, disconnect at turbo boost sensor vac pipe and when vacuum applied by mouth I got vacuum, but it's impossible to see if link arm moves , did Multiecuscan test on boost control solenoid,I got a few clicks so assume ok .
Will have to ask garage to check when in next week.

 

[proppb]

Thanks , it's a glass half full or half empty!.
LP EGR cooler will be changed next week.
The DPF I'm sure has a crack as I've been doing exhaust wipes for every run for a few months and it can be very light to thicker depending on speed /time ..so not sure what to do on that ?
Turbo issue was a surprise, sensor was changed last garage visit, so another did they just do it and not even check it on diagnostic.
Thought my days laying under a motor on a Sunday where over , apparently not .

 

[proppb]

I know labour charges change depending on area but can i ask what you have been qouted for the components?

 

[Serrow225]

I know labour charges change depending on area but can i ask what you have been qouted for the components?

Hi ,I'm London at a FP commercial garage and so far to change HP EGR( waste of money not the problem) and update to V32 , return visit to then replace MAF and turbo boost sensor and new OM air filter has cost me almost 2k.
I haven't got a definite cost for LP cooler but I'm budgeting from another 2k to; if DPF is toast and new turbo actuator 6k ?
Trouble is I've got van we like layout,to PX would cost a lot more and I could end up with same problems , just different issues add blue ,wet belts snapping etc etc ..so I'm along for the ride now !

 

[Serrow225]

I know labour charges change depending on area but can i ask what you have been qouted for the components?

Just checked prices, MAF £325 , 5 week back order.
Boost valve £97.
HP EGR £249.
I know all these parts are cheaper if you look around,but I will only use OME parts and van was in garage so I was in a hostage situation!

 

[Fredastaire]

I'm caught with the same outline problem as @Serrow225 in that I ordered my van as special build spec from the factory then did my own conversion. My only choice would be to order another van and start again. With only 34k on the clock I'm better staying with the one I know.
.
For others reading this, I'm now two years down the line after a cooler change and with known soot in the tailpipe. @theoneandonly has recent csv file and all is well except for a question on the turbo lagging a little behind requested pressure. Here again please note I only ever run expensive spec diesel dosed with millers.
.
@Serrow225 two points on the cooler, 1/. Ask if there is a factory exchange, 2/. Make sure you get the removed one returned to you as they can be cleaned with caustic and re- used.
.
It's not all doom and gloom, thank goodness we don't have Adblue.

 

[Serrow225]

I'm caught with the same outline problem as @Serrow225 in that I ordered my van as special build spec from the factory then did my own conversion. My only choice would be to order another van and start again. With only 34k on the clock I'm better staying with the one I know.
.
For others reading this, I'm now two years down the line after a cooler change and with known soot in the tailpipe. @theoneandonly has recent csv file and all is well except for a question on the turbo lagging a little behind requested pressure. Here again please note I only ever run expensive spec diesel dosed with millers.
.
@Serrow225 two points on the cooler, 1/. Ask if there is a factory exchange, 2/. Make sure you get the removed one returned to you as they can be cleaned with caustic and re- used.
.
It's not all doom and gloom, thank goodness we don't have Adblue.

They are going to hate me at garage, I've got a folder with print outs on LP , DPF , Turbo..etc , with a list of stuff I want checked ,and old LP cooler returned for me to see how bad and clean out .. I know in my job as a waste water pump engineer. The customers who have knowledge on a problem,get their issues sorted as you can't fob them off with a " it will be fine , couldn't find anything wrong"

 

[ben360]

Here we go folks, I look forward to seeing what the thoughts are on the attached.

A couple of things I have noticed as a novice, injector 2 seems to be at odds to the other three and although I had the oil changed a few thousand miles ago, with the correct spec, I doubt my local garage informed the ECU, which seems to be a thing. Should I tell the ECU about the oil change even though it was a while ago??

 

[theoneandonly]

Here we go folks, I look forward to seeing what the thoughts are on the attached.

A couple of things I have noticed as a novice, injector 2 seems to be at odds to the other three and although I had the oil changed a few thousand miles ago, with the correct spec, I doubt my local garage informed the ECU, which seems to be a thing. Should I tell the ECU about the oil change even though it was a while ago??

1 would register the oil cha nge now. No oil changes have been registered at all.
2 you have 1 reprogramming. When was this, please post page F2 with software version.
I will look at csv later.

 

[ben360]

Software version is 23, not sure when the reprogramming was done, I took the van in for a recall around 2019, maybe then or previous owner? Will register the oil change now.

 

[theoneandonly]

Software version is 23, not sure when the reprogramming was done, I took the van in for a recall around 2019, maybe then or previous owner? Will register the oil change now.

the version of template 4 must have been an early one quite a few variations from the most recent and the txt file i sent. But what have we got.
Injectors 1 outside Fiat limmit of 2 2 close
O2 and turbo OK

DPF max temp during regen 684C. I have very few captures of a regen to compare against.one oct 23 678C
duration 4.7min

I think the regen has interfered with the LPEGR activities so would really need another run

 

[theoneandonly]

To prevent any confusion , this is my current template 4 prefered for general testing. It is designed to do specific tests and point to other templates if other specific data is required. It also works with my semi automatic spreadsheet to produce the graphs. This uses live real time data and can capture a regen in action. Template 9 captures slow moving data (eg some regen data) and can be used just with ignition on.

 

[ben360]

Yes, there are some differences in those parameters to the template 4 I found in another thread. I saved the txt file in the correct folder as an ini but couldn’t them through into MES, I will use the above to amend manually. Will be a week or two until I can re-run as we are away in the van now and my laptop has run out of battery.

I’ve updated the oil change.

Do I need to do something about the injectors or do we need to see the results from another temp. 4 run?