Stelantis are quite happy as Fiat is expendable. You can all drive PSA products with Fiat badges! Oh and by the way they expect you to like it. Its called progress....... Its a shame we are looking at a monopoly at this rate. What would SIr like Stelalntis or VAG group?
Desira Norwich now Suzuki.
A bit of healthy competition would be nice, but sadly it is disapperaing.
I would go as far to say that in order to compete globally (with the other Europeans (namely VAG), then with the South Koreans who rose to their current success in the last decade, the strong competition from the Japs too, and now most dangerous of all, the incoming abundance of Chinese crap that will due to its destruction pricing win consumers over in their masses is to blame.
And unlike a decade ago, it's a race to deliver affordable, desirable and practical EVs now. The folks who could barely build a decent engine might just turn out to be the ones who build a great motor / battery. The folks who built a bullet-proof, desirable diesel / petrol engine might turn out to be crap at EVs?
In Europe, manufacturers are forced by legislation to comply. I'm sure there is a lot of industrial monetary incentives to invest in the research and designs well as set up the factories which helped them. VAG haven't ignored the legislation or the EV stuff, albeit it's biting them now with not being able to sell em as well as they hoped. PSA (prior to Stellantis) have also taken the future seriously and invested in the EV tech. Fiat did with the 500, but although it tops the last decades EVs it doesn't really seem to compare favourably on the headline stats to some current new EV arrivals but it sure comes at a huge cost to recover FCA Fiat's R&D that went into it.
Long story short, I think Fiat's position and actions have meant in order to survive in the new mandatory EV future (at least within Europe, which of course is its primary market) it hasn't had much choice but to group up. Much to the death of the company we love.
In Europe we'll have VAG, Renault / Mercedes and Stellantis. It's probably - legitimately - not worth their time giving too much thought to managing ICE cars and EVs. and will those companies really hate the fact that after around 6 years, you as-good-as need a brand new car or battery worth half the cost? If you've ever had the misfortune like I have of owning a 5 year old MacBook Pro, you'll find the battery gets next to useless after a few years. Sure, you can replace it, but only Apple has the parts. They don't allow resellers to stock them. They'll do it alright. For around half the cost of the price you paid new. Why? Because the battery only comes glued to the bottom case, which also has the keyboard and mouse pad as one piece. Oh, it's not worth it? Might as well just check out the new models, we'll give you a few £ (not much) for yours.
Not sure what the Korean government / situation with EV forced legislation. But they're taking it very seriously. Probably because of their desire / focus on trying to become a global success. South Korea is exceptionally talented at electronics. I don't like their cars, but they've got a healthy R&D budget and healthy sales figures around the globe. And positive press attention, even if they have done a bit of VAG like sponsorship here and there.
Japan, they see through the illusion. They aren't all in on EVs. With Toyota being the biggest / one of the most valuable brands in the world, they also can't only cater to Europe / first world countries without falling behind in the Americas, poorer parts of the world etc. They are even farther off than we are at an EV capable grid. They can't even keep the lights on for a week straight. Toyota won't give up their share in these parts of the world by failing to deliver ICE cars. They also won't give up their position in Europe etc, so they're delivering some effort in some EVs but I wouldn't say it's their best effort. They know something we don't, or rather, their government isn't as keen on passing legislation that might make public figures appear to care about the environment in the short term, but rather, they won't go all in on something that might just prove to be no more useful than diesels were at helping the planet.
Toyota can afford to do this as Europe isn't its be all and end all. VAG, Stellantis ... they have no choice. For our individual car brands to survive against the Koreans and now the Chinese influx, they're going to need shared R&D, shared platforms, killer figures on the range / reliability / perceived desirability driving sales. Fiat's old model of relying on older tech such as the venerable FIRE engine has worked well with buyers like all of us folks, but if its forced to go all in on EVs, that won't fly. There isn't really any old tech. The old tech in EVs is like the faster horse in the days of the first cars. Barely fair to compare. Too much to lose to bank on that by going it alone.
I understand why Fiat has to die and do this. I for one won't buy a PSA derived Fiat unless we know and can be fairly certain that it has enough Fiat where it matters. Hopefully it remains a strong influence over design and the direction of Stellantis. But all I'll say it, the interesting Citroen models stopped existing when Peugeot took over. I think it's safe to say PSA was Peugeot with a slightly increased budget to allow Citroen to take take superficial design risks whilst solely depending on Peugeots engines / platforms.
Personally, I think (and hope until I can be convinced otherwise) that the EV thing will certainly be forced on us. I think (and again, might get proven wrong) that when the 6-7 year mark comes and not everybody is trading in their car every 3 years, enough people are going to have enough with how they've spent twice as much than before on a new car and it's lasting half as long. Look at it this way, a decade ago a Ford Focus started at £14k. You'd easily get 15 years from it (and any car) with care and maintenance - not going over the top. Now, the latest model costs £30k. Let's imagine that was a BEV. I wouldn't be so sure today's lithium batteries will be so dependable come 6/7 years of heat and rapid recharge cycles. Twice the cost. Half the life. And for what, less emissions in the city - great for the lungs of our inner city friends. But it doesn't help the planet much, not inherently. And it's one hell of an assumption to think that all the electricity will come from renewable sources. Also dismissed questions surrounding where all this material will come from and the labour ethics.
But... I think whilst we're privileged enough in Europe to give this whole idea a try, we're also quite free to vote with our money. EV sales can and I think will stall massively unless they can pull some miracles out of thin air in the next few years. That will change legislation. Politicians who get support for these silly, half baked ideas as banning ICE and pulling the dates forward, can equally get positive reputation points when the time gets closer by delaying and scrapping it altogether.
We have 7 years to go. That means, if what I say (and a lot of others fear) comes true, that's plenty of time to signal with our buying choices what the legislation ought to support.
That means for the privileged folks who can afford to choose an EV today, that's enough time for it to become a lawn ornament on a national scale. Enough reporting, talking at the water cooler in the office, struggling with money because of the crappy investment of a now dead-on-the-driveway failed battery EV that they can't sell or shift. Enough time for the UK and Europeans to say "we bought your EVs, and they don't work. I refuse to pay this much for something that doesn't work in half the years" - if that's how it pans out.
At least Fiat can't go down alone. They'll go down as part of Stellantis. As one of the EUs biggest employers / industry / tax payers. If they go down as a result of the same decisions we're seeing them have no choice but to respond to today, then they're pretty much part of something that cannot fail completely. It'll be bailed out by the same government that caused it to ditch its path and have to team up with competition.
Back to the dealers. They're in it for the ride. With new Stellantis models they'll get the new steel they need. They'll get a well invested in EV platform and tech combo. At the end of the day, the 500L failed and the 2008 / 3008 continues to sell well. Same with the 208 / C3. The DS3 was even a big success sales wise. Despite its shortcomings. PSA didn't bother figuring out how to make decent alloy wheels or reliable parking sensors (old tech now) but they made the effort to keep their models fresh, "stylish" and priced competitively / well specced. And that was the difference. That's what kept folks coming back, trading in - there was a new car to trade in for from the 207, 208, new 208. The new buyers don't keep the cars long enough to care about the thing us tinkerers and DIY mechanics find to be recurring faults. The new buyers are all the dealers care about, right? Mobility seems to be all they care about here. Guaranteed income customers who for some reason, keep buying new cars every few years and yet don't care much about the trim or spec or features. There's a lady up my street who's had a brand new grey EcoSport, brand new yellow EcoSport, brand new blue EcoSport and right now, a grey EcoSport. I don't know how the Ford dealer here does it. But I'll tell you why the Fiat dealership doesn't. Because they closed all but one a few years ago :-(
(I hope this makes sense. Running test software on this computer and it keeps regurgitating sentences from a few lines above...)
