Another Dealer Quits

[s130]

I see that Middleton Garage is Bognor Regis, Sussex is no longer a Fiat dealer. Apparently they quit as a Fiat dealer due to very low new car sales and all the associated hassle and overheads as an official dealer. They are now only second hand and Specialist garage.

Shame as I know at least two people there, one for over 30 years. He has been with Fiat for many years as both Service and Parts manager in a number of dealerships.

Would not surprise me if more follow!

Fiat have never been in the Fleet Car Market (other than commercial vehicles) with most of their UK sales coming from private purchasers. It would appear that the now electric and hybrid cars sales are very low and second hand values of non electric/hybrid are very good as is demand.

 

[AndyRKett]

My Local dealer is seemingly slowly winding down. Recently I went by and in the actual Fiat dealership show room was a mini cooper convertible and a nissan Qashqai. Outside was a row of various used BMWs Mercedes and weirdly quite a few LandRovers these days. usually 3 or 4.

Half the dealership space used to be Citroen and this has seemingly become MG now. I think it only a matter of time before the Fiat Logos are taken down as they find selling other cars more cost effective. It must be pretty hard work for a sales man in a fiat dealer at the moment, assuming a customer actually comes in, you have a choice of about 3 - 4 models with virtually no engine options and about 3 - 4 colour choices. There are barely any optional extras these days either.

 

[s130]

New Car Sales Figures

Abarth - BOTTOM - Down minus 70% YTD
Fiat - Down minus 46% in June and -17.66 YTD
Fiat - Market Share 1.00% in 2023 and 1.43% in 2022

Alfa are in a worse state!

Those numbers are not looking good. Fiat have never had a high market share compared to other general brands but the minus figures are really heavy!

I suppose the plus side is that assuming you want electric/hybrid I suspect you could drive a real hard bargain and get a good deal????

 

[StevenRB45]

I'd say the writing is on the wall for the current dealer network..

Chances are they'll consolidate everything into "Stellantis and You" centres (cringe).

Looking at what they doing currently a great many of those are existing Peugeot/Citroën dealers.

Locally they've been buying up big pitches, which you'd think were perhaps unnecessarily large until factor in they are likely going to be selling Fiat, Vauxhall, Citroën, Alfa, DS, Peugeot new and used cars off a single site.

 

[s130]

So will Fiat cars become Old Bangers or Old Classics here in the UK? Is suspect Alfa Romeo will become like Lancia and thus Old Classics and no Bangers.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

New Car Sales Figures

Abarth - BOTTOM - Down minus 70% YTD
Fiat - Down minus 46% in June and -17.66 YTD
Fiat - Market Share 1.00% in 2023 and 1.43% in 2022

Alfa are in a worse state!

Those numbers are not looking good. Fiat have never had a high market share compared to other general brands but the minus figures are really heavy!

I suppose the plus side is that assuming you want electric/hybrid I suspect you could drive a real hard bargain and get a good deal????

If you can't supply, as seemed to be the case, then you're going to post some pretty poor numbers no matter the demand.

 

[StevenRB45]

Just because they aren't selling here... doesn't mean they aren't selling.

Fiat Booms to Be Best Selling Stellantis Brand in H1 2023

Predictions of Fiat’s demise once it was scooped up in the Stellantis Group have so far fallen wide of the mark, with the Italian brand dominating the Group’s other vo...

www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Also as more and more brands leave small cars..what rivals are left?

 

[AndyRKett]

Thinking back to the 90s and Fiat were big players with the Punto being the 3rd car choice behind the likes of the Fiesta and the Corsa.
Cinq and later Sei sales were strong. The Mk2 Punto was a massive sales success. The late 90s Brava/Bravo/Maera(weekend)
Multipla, Ulysses, Stilo. That end of the 1990s begining of the 2000s was a boom time for fiat not just hear but across Europe.

Its all been pretty down hill since then and while they may sell more cars on home turf than they do in other countries. That's not a very secure place to be for a company where the parent might decide to kill a model and decide that customers in that market would move to the next best offering which is one of their own cars.

Its not just Fiat closing dealerships down left and right. The Vauxhall network collapsed after the Stellantis take over with dozens closing down across east Anglia where I am. Since moving here 11 years ago, the local Peugeot dealership was bulldozed to build houses. The Subaru dealer closed and only in the last 2 weeks the Ford dealer nearby has finally admitted defeat and shut up shop.

The Fiat dealer at this point is the only one still here and that doesn't seem to sell fiat cars. its only fiat by virtue of the signs on the walls around the building. They also closed their online parts business during lock down and have not restarted this.

I Do think Stellantis will absorb multiple brands into larger dealership sites. But I think Fiat have so little to offer now that going forward I think Fiat will be left to die off in the UK. I think they will become like lancia selling in europe for a few more years to come till they eventually kill off the fiat name, or it becomes a very niche brand within Stellantis just to keep the Italians happy.
I prime example being the rebrand of the citron Ami to the Fiat Topolino, because they know that will sell a million times better in Italy than if it had a Citroen badge, despite being the same car.

 

[porta]

I'd say the writing is on the wall for the current dealer network..

Chances are they'll consolidate everything into "Stellantis and You" centres (cringe).

Looking at what they doing currently a great many of those are existing Peugeot/Citroën dealers.

Locally they've been buying up big pitches, which you'd think were perhaps unnecessarily large until factor in they are likely going to be selling Fiat, Vauxhall, Citroën, Alfa, DS, Peugeot new and used cars off a single site.

PSA have done the opposite here and moved from one site to a site either side of the main road. (There’s a Vauxhall dealer also on the road…and a VW) The ‘estate’ is easily able to take one huge PSA or even a Stellantis dealership, but they’ve chosen to separate them

 

[StevenRB45]

I'd say they'll basically whichever brands sell well locally.

Eg. Opel is seen as a German brand in Germany so more likely to sell than an identical Peugeot. As Andy says In Italy Fiat will sell better than the French brands, UK Vauxhall isn't seen as french brand etc.

But doesn't necessarily mean they are dead...but they aren't going to be stocking 80s and early 00s engineered cars and selling them at discounts in hope someone will buy them. FCA proved this strategy doesn't work.

Hence new Panda and 600e and whatever else is coming down the road.

 

[Abervicar]

New Car Sales Figures

Abarth - BOTTOM - Down minus 70% YTD
Fiat - Down minus 46% in June and -17.66 YTD
Fiat - Market Share 1.00% in 2023 and 1.43% in 2022

Alfa are in a worse state!

Those numbers are not looking good. Fiat have never had a high market share compared to other general brands but the minus figures are really heavy!

I suppose the plus side is that assuming you want electric/hybrid I suspect you could drive a real hard bargain and get a good deal????

New Alfas are like hens' teeth and discounts hard to obtain. Orders are predicted a six- to nine-month waiting time. The local branch of Stoneacre is no longer dealing in Alfas. But there are some great second-hand deals... If FIAT and Alfa are to remain players in the UK new car market, they (and their remaining dealers) are going to have to get by on not very much for some years while the promised new models come online.

 

[AndyRKett]

Hence new Panda and 600e and whatever else is coming down the road.

I'd take any new models with a pinch of salt as to the longevity of fiat as a brand. After they took over Vauxhall/Opel they made a big deal about being "committed" to the brands and brought out new cars quickly on PSA platforms.

The 600 seems to fit with this, but there isn't a platform currently in the PSA tool box to easily transplant for a new Panda. So if a new Panda is a rebadged PSA car then its clear the commitment isn't there.
A true replacement for the panda has to be a very small car, which I cannot see Stellantis wanting to design from scratch.

I think they may just Half-arse the panda replacement, put it on the 500e platform, which will sell well to most of the Italian faithful who want a very small 5 door car to last the next 5 years. Giving Stellantis time to change the attitudes of the italian locals and soften them up to other cars in the Stellantis group.

Give it another 5 - 10 years and it doesn't make sense for Stellantis to have 5 different brands of car all competing for the same customers. Far easier to give them a choice of 3 and cut down on production costs.

Fiat sells well in Italy and so did Lancia but lancia is pretty much dead now through lack of investment, fiat risks going the same way if it can't increase its appeal outside of italy, but for that it needs new cars and a wider range.

 

[StevenRB45]

From what I've seen the Panda is due next year and will be on the developing

I'd take any new models with a pinch of salt as to the longevity of fiat as a brand. After they took over Vauxhall/Opel they made a big deal about being "committed" to the brands and brought out new cars quickly on PSA platforms.

The 600 seems to fit with this, but there isn't a platform currently in the PSA tool box to easily transplant for a new Panda. So if a new Panda is a rebadged PSA car then its clear the commitment isn't there.
A true replacement for the panda has to be a very small car, which I cannot see Stellantis wanting to design from scratch.

I think they may just Half-arse the panda replacement, put it on the 500e platform, which will sell well to most of the Italian faithful who want a very small 5 door car to last the next 5 years. Giving Stellantis time to change the attitudes of the italian locals and soften them up to other cars in the Stellantis group.

Give it another 5 - 10 years and it doesn't make sense for Stellantis to have 5 different brands of car all competing for the same customers. Far easier to give them a choice of 3 and cut down on production costs.

Fiat sells well in Italy and so did Lancia but lancia is pretty much dead now through lack of investment, fiat risks going the same way if it can't increase its appeal outside of italy, but for that it needs new cars and a wider range.

From what I've seen the Panda will be on the developing market version of CMP platform. 600e seems to be replacement for the 500x, given these were the only cars they were building that hadn't been replaced recently they've effectively renewed the entire range within 3 years of taking over.

Future direction may be more problematic...but given I've been reading of a 50mph capable longer range Ami (can't find it now but fairly sure it wasn't a dream)...well you'd imagine there will also be a topolino version which should fulfil the same brief as the original 500 all those years ago (hopefully they'll widen the track a bit and give it some safety given it absolutely won't qualify as a sans permis).

Future direction will also come down to how configurable everything is eg. Could you run Amis and Topolinos down the same production line and decorate the exterior as per whichever one the customer has ordered?

 

[s130]

Another side effect of brands having reduce sales is not very obvious to the casual onlooker, more obvious to any owner and a blinding obvious choice by the maker

MINIMISE SPARE PARTS STORAGE, DISTRIBUTION AND QUICK AVAILABILITY!

I think we have all suffered "back order" delays and problem with Fiat/Alfa parts. Why should this get any better.

Whilst manufacturers are supposed to supply parts for 10 years after sale (I don't think Fiat have really ever done this. Parts for the Stradas produced in 1988 were not available less than six months later) there is no stipulation or requirement as to how quickly they have to be available. 1 month, 6 months, year?

After my smashed 500X Xenon headlamp (£850+vat from Fiat) was unavailable (expected 2wks to 4wks + from Italy) my car was stuck in the body shop. Fortunately they managed to source a Marelli OEM part but even those were almost non existent.

Something a simple as an exterior light can ground a vehicle.

 

[porta]

Another side effect of brands having reduce sales is not very obvious to the casual onlooker, more obvious to any owner and a blinding obvious choice by the maker

MINIMISE SPARE PARTS STORAGE, DISTRIBUTION AND QUICK AVAILABILITY!

I think we have all suffered "back order" delays and problem with Fiat/Alfa parts. Why should this get any better.

Whilst manufacturers are supposed to supply parts for 10 years after sale (I don't think Fiat have really ever done this. Parts for the Stradas produced in 1988 were not available less than six months later) there is no stipulation or requirement as to how quickly they have to be available. 1 month, 6 months, year?

After my smashed 500X Xenon headlamp (£850+vat from Fiat) was unavailable (expected 2wks to 4wks + from Italy) my car was stuck in the body shop. Fortunately they managed to source a Marelli OEM part but even those were almost non existent.

Something a simple as an exterior light can ground a vehicle.

The same parts issues are also with the ducato…etal…and the commonality stretches to everything bar the badges (I know certain markets didn’t get certain vehicles or, necessarily same power outputs) I think that everyone assumed JIT would work from finished product to the parts, maybe they took it too far and maybe manufacturers got complacent and lazy, they certainly, much like the dealers, take us for granted

 

[AndyRKett]

Future direction will also come down to how configurable everything is eg. Could you run Amis and Topolinos down the same production line and decorate the exterior as per whichever one the customer has ordered?

This is something that VW has been doing for quite a while in some factories where an VW or a porsche can be put together on the same production line.

Fiat had some success doing this with the 500x/jeep renegade, Making multi model production lines would save a fortune for the relatively low production volumes of fiat compared to something like a ford focus or a vauxhall corsa where they can sell as many and as quickly as they can make them.

In years gone by if you bought a toyota aygo, citroen c1 or peugeot 107 they made no claim to be anything other than the same car no major changes to the appearance to make you think they were different and they allowed those 3 brands to have a car in that tiny car segment at a super cheap price, it just helped them serve loyal customers with what they wanted and allowed the companies to share R&D cost.

I think Stallanits will obviously do more like this, but as they have shown it will be more costly as each brand's car will have its own skin such as the Mokka looking like a Vauxhall and that 600 looking like a fiat. It just creates a bit of a logistics problem if there are 4 or more different sets of body panels to be pressed in one factory, but still possible.

At least with the Ami the only difference needed is the badge stuck on the front.

After my smashed 500X Xenon headlamp (£850+vat from Fiat) was unavailable (expected 2wks to 4wks + from Italy) my car was stuck in the body shop. Fortunately they managed to source a Marelli OEM part but even those were almost non existent.

Something a simple as an exterior light can ground a vehicle.

There was someone on the forum very recently who could not buy a new clutch for a Fiat 124 spider, a car that only went into production in 2016 and out of production in 2019, there shouldn't be a huge demand for clutches or fly wheels and it should be a fairly common part as its a common engine, but it could not be sourced anywhere.

 

[porta]

You didn’t dream about the extended range ami/topolino I read it also, carscoops and autocar, who broke the 600e story (despite it being mentioned in US press wehn the Avenger was presented

 

[AndyRKett]

I've been reading of a 50mph capable longer range Ami

Did you see the video of the blokes loading up an Ami with a massive amount of weight then getting it up to 64mph driving it down a steep hill?


try this link

 

[StevenRB45]

Did you see the video of the blokes loading up an Ami with a massive amount of weight then getting it up to 64mph driving it down a steep hill?


try this link

I did yes.

Rather them than me....would hate to think what the stopping distance would have been/how many times it would have rolled had the got a tank slapper on.

I assume there will be other mods on the factory higher speed Ami as currently built it would be absolutely frightening.

I say this as someone who likes the concept but is aware of the current limitations...

 

[icheatatscrabble]

I see that Middleton Garage is Bognor Regis, Sussex is no longer a Fiat dealer. Apparently they quit as a Fiat dealer due to very low new car sales and all the associated hassle and overheads as an official dealer. They are now only second hand and Specialist garage.

Shame as I know at least two people there, one for over 30 years. He has been with Fiat for many years as both Service and Parts manager in a number of dealerships.

Would not surprise me if more follow!

Fiat have never been in the Fleet Car Market (other than commercial vehicles) with most of their UK sales coming from private purchasers. It would appear that the now electric and hybrid cars sales are very low and second hand values of non electric/hybrid are very good as is demand.

I got an email from Middleton last week about this (I bought my 595 Comp from them). They said they were moving to used cars, which I assumed was because there is only so many Fiat 500s you can sell in Bognor. The 500e is just so expensive and the Abarth 500e at almost £40k is ridiculously overpriced.
So it would seem they decided to knock it on the head, as they did with their sister branch out near Fareham (Sarisbury Green) a few years back. Fiat wanted them to invest in their site, but the footfall / sales wouldn’t make financial sense to do so.
So I imagine this is what has happened in Bognor.