Another Dealer Quits

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I wasn't looking for anything "fancy" as such but spec and performance parity with the current car.

Even then it went insane...given you're adding on even basics like rear side airbags as a cost option (or they were at the time). Seem to recall the spare is optional as well. Even a leather wheel with steering wheel controls is an option on a 24k spec...and cannot be had unless you buy the winter pack for 700 quid+.

At that point my thoughts were why wouldn't I just buy a Mazda 3 for less?, get more spec, more power and a better looking car...but I may be vaguely partisan. Or an Octavia...which is meant to be more expensive but by the time the specs are aligned not really...

I'm looking at the SE spec, so sort of "mid" on the range. It's the spec recommended as being best value by most of the reviews. I'm not wanting "bells and whistles" but it does seem to have a leather wheel with controls embedded (I think that's the standard wheel?). The spare seems to be standard and is a normal 195/60R16 I think - not a specific space saver as I'd recognize it. All the ones I've been looking at on the used sites seem to have a spare - maybe people that buy them just consider that they wanted one? However I'm told a standard wheel will fit if you get the raised boot floor brackets, which I would be doing.

Anyway, early days yet, lots more to look into and my focus is still on trying to get on top of the immediate problems with Twink.

 

[vexorg]

previous minis we had bought at 6 months/4000ish miles

We used to be the same, always hunted and found a year old cars for about half of the new price. Then something weird happened at vauxhall about 10 years ago and with enough haglging you could get new cars cheapers than the one year old ones on the forecourt. They couldn't drop the second hand price, but the dealer subsidised new cars to get the sale.

Then also got caught on the pcp deals for new cars, again for whatever reason, it's cheaper to buy new on pcp than cash, or for same spec second hand on the forecourt. Nissan gave all sorts of discounts, even one for trading and old juke infor a new one.

Wasn't too bothered by the pcp thing as my wife increased hour to full time, so balances out for her car. However, I cant see any newer cars I like that dont cost silly money.

 

[AndyRKett]

We used to be the same, always hunted and found a year old cars for about half of the new price. Then something weird happened at vauxhall about 10 years ago and with enough haglging you could get new cars cheapers than the one year old ones on the forecourt. They couldn't drop the second hand price, but the dealer subsidised new cars to get the sale.

Then also got caught on the pcp deals for new cars, again for whatever reason, it's cheaper to buy new on pcp than cash, or for same spec second hand on the forecourt. Nissan gave all sorts of discounts, even one for trading and old juke infor a new one.

Wasn't too bothered by the pcp thing as my wife increased hour to full time, so balances out for her car. However, I cant see any newer cars I like that dont cost silly money.

I don't know much about other brands but as an example we bought a 2012 London Olympic edition Mini in 2013 for £16k when the new price for the same car with the same spec would have been over £24k, even discounting the new price they would never have matched a new car to the price of the used one. The car was a little under 6 months old with some 3900ish miles on the clock.

When I bought my Golf in 2015 they had an offer on where they paid the VAT for you, which on a £32k car made it ~£26k a 2012 version of the same car (lower spec) was on the forecourt at the time for £23k. but the interest rate on the new car was something like 5.4% versus about 8% for the used car making the overall cost of the brand new car less then if I'd bought the new one, so it was a no brainer to buy new for a higher spec, lower mileage, unused car with a known history and 3 year warranty and the first two services free.

It's definitely worth exploring what deal you can get new and used.


Bringing the thread back on subject a bit, this is maybe why fiat have struggled so much over the years, as they never seemed to run any deals or offers, or if they did it was negligible what they were offering maybe £1000 deposit contribution or some such.

 

[StevenRB45]

I would say a lot of the lack of financial incentives on Fiats or even PSA cars has stemmed from catastrophic future values.

Lease and PCP rates very much depend on what the car will be worth in future given you're paying the difference between value now and value then.

On a cheap car it's not so bad as the total actual loss isn't that bad but when you get into 30k+ and it's forecast to lose 70% value then the monthly rate/discount they can offer is not gonna be ideal.

One of the things Stellantis did do recently was a price adjustment in an effort to stop this kinda thing.

If you bought an Astra 10 years ago you could get 25% off the thing. List price would be 20k you'd pay 15 and after 3 it was worth 8. Actually retained value is more than 50%...but loss from list price looks terrible.

Finance rates tend to be from list...so yeah shooting yourself in the foot massively but they tend to offer a massive "deposit contribution" to balance it out, we got about 3 grand on the C3 if memory serves.

What they've said they've done is... advertising it at a price...and that's the price but in theory it's lower than it would have been under the old pricing structure. Combined with values that have firmed up it should make lease/PCP a bit cheaper...for all rather than some getting large discounts and people who pay list getting mugged.

 

[vexorg]

Traditionally I would say fiat have always been seen as a cheaper brand, not in terms of price, but quality. And there are many better built small cars on the road for the same money.

There is a trend towards bigger cars, I would have thought more 500Xs and 500Ls would have worked, but they are still quite rare. Again, there are better cars for the same money.

Other than the quirkiness or trendiness of the 500, the range is not appealing. Even the higher spec 500 has a cheapness to them compared to other cars.

 

[SB1500]

Traditionally I would say fiat have always been seen as a cheaper brand, not in terms of price, but quality. And there are many better built small cars on the road for the same money.

There is a trend towards bigger cars, I would have thought more 500Xs and 500Ls would have worked, but they are still quite rare. Again, there are better cars for the same money.

Other than the quirkiness or trendiness of the 500, the range is not appealing. Even the higher spec 500 has a cheapness to them compared to other cars.

Traditionally I would say fiat have always been seen as a cheaper brand, not in terms of price, but quality. And there are many better built small cars on the road for the same money.

There is a trend towards bigger cars, I would have thought more 500Xs and 500Ls would have worked, but they are still quite rare. Again, there are better cars for the same money.

Other than the quirkiness or trendiness of the 500, the range is not appealing. Even the higher spec 500 has a cheapness to them compared to other cars.

Compared to what other cars? Not in the A-segment.

The Aygo/108/C1 didn’t even have a proper parcel shelf. Exposed bodywork inside. The VAG washing machine trio also had exposed bodywork inside and the most horrific plastic I’ve ever seen on the Skoda variant. The Suzuki Celerio you could press the dashboard right down with the lightest touch…

Fiat’s problem is the price is high for the comparatively better spec / features you’ll find on the other A-segment competitors. And though Fiat leaves it way too long between all new replacement models compared to competitors, looking even at the B-segment with Ford’s Fiesta - they absolutely took a step back on build quality (things people don’t notice for a while) in desperation to compete with the nasty Kia/Hyundai/Dacia (now Chinese tat) trend that dominated in the last decade in order to compete. I’d say a Panda Pop model is put together better than the current Fiesta 3 door. More basic sure, less value for money and lacking modern tech definitely. But better build quality? No. And that’s a segment above.

So what A-segment cars are you thinking of?

Fiats are arguably outdated but as many owners here might testify that’s turned out to be a plus side. Sure look at VAG forums of people running into so much trouble with basic things like replacing rear brakes because of the ball ache design - which achieves no performance advancement to justify its existence. Mostly on around 10 year old cars. You’ll never get that on an old Fiat because of the very basic brake designs and approaches they make. We changed the brakes on a 2011 Leon last week and concluded that whoever designed that system needs a punch in the face because of how poorly it ages in terms of making a simple job a pain. Same on the Tiguan. Same on the Bora and Golf. Every time we curse them. Every time we worked on my old Fiat we never came across any part that looked like a cop out to save money. It was always just very basic compared to other more modern cars we worked on in the family.

I wonder what models you have in mind. The A-segment seems to be disappearing because of the regulatory pressure behind the EV fad and manufacturers not being able to fit batteries in, and definitely not being able to innovate batteries inside that size of car at the prices we expect them to be. They’re just axing them. No more C1/108. Toyota still has a bit of sense keeping its Aygo. Haven’t been in one in person but I still suspect it’ll have much more obvious cost saving over our old 2011 Panda design (albeit with much more high tech as standard for a similar price)

 

[porta]

Compared to what other cars? Not in the A-segment.

The Aygo/108/C1 didn’t even have a proper parcel shelf. Exposed bodywork inside. The VAG washing machine trio also had exposed bodywork inside and the most horrific plastic I’ve ever seen on the Skoda variant. The Suzuki Celerio you could press the dashboard right down with the lightest touch…

Fiat’s problem is the price is high for the comparatively better spec / features you’ll find on the other A-segment competitors. And though Fiat leaves it way too long between all new replacement models compared to competitors, looking even at the B-segment with Ford’s Fiesta - they absolutely took a step back on build quality (things people don’t notice for a while) in desperation to compete with the nasty Kia/Hyundai/Dacia (now Chinese tat) trend that dominated in the last decade in order to compete. I’d say a Panda Pop model is put together better than the current Fiesta 3 door. More basic sure, less value for money and lacking modern tech definitely. But better build quality? No. And that’s a segment above.

So what A-segment cars are you thinking of?

Fiats are arguably outdated but as many owners here might testify that’s turned out to be a plus side. Sure look at VAG forums of people running into so much trouble with basic things like replacing rear brakes because of the ball ache design - which achieves no performance advancement to justify its existence. Mostly on around 10 year old cars. You’ll never get that on an old Fiat because of the very basic brake designs and approaches they make. We changed the brakes on a 2011 Leon last week and concluded that whoever designed that system needs a punch in the face because of how poorly it ages in terms of making a simple job a pain. Same on the Tiguan. Same on the Bora and Golf. Every time we curse them. Every time we worked on my old Fiat we never came across any part that looked like a cop out to save money. It was always just very basic compared to other more modern cars we worked on in the family.

I wonder what models you have in mind. The A-segment seems to be disappearing because of the regulatory pressure behind the EV fad and manufacturers not being able to fit batteries in, and definitely not being able to innovate batteries inside that size of car at the prices we expect them to be. They’re just axing them. No more C1/108. Toyota still has a bit of sense keeping its Aygo. Haven’t been in one in person but I still suspect it’ll have much more obvious cost saving over our old 2011 Panda design (albeit with much more high tech as standard for a similar price)

A friend has just swapped her 2013 500 1.2 for a 2019 Aygo due to gearbox and clutch issues all in one year. Unfortunately they have a garage that they’ve ‘always used’ and, the first time it went in they said ‘what have you bought that Fiat for?’. Hardly a vote of confidence on their willingness!
So far, 3mths, they love the Aygo, but they’re comparing different cars with a completely different spec. It’s just as plastic but it’s newer, it’s got loads more tech but it cost a whole lot more, it looks good from the outside but they’ve tried too hard on the inside and it shows.
Their real standpoint is that they love VAG, but could only afford one (he’s got some VW sports thing that it’s more somber than a mortuary inside) so the missus and eldest daughter share the Aygo

 

[SB1500]

A friend has just swapped her 2013 500 1.2 for a 2019 Aygo due to gearbox and clutch issues all in one year. Unfortunately they have a garage that they’ve ‘always used’ and, the first time it went in they said ‘what have you bought that Fiat for?’. Hardly a vote of confidence on their willingness!
So far, 3mths, they love the Aygo, but they’re comparing different cars with a completely different spec. It’s just as plastic but it’s newer, it’s got loads more tech but it cost a whole lot more, it looks good from the outside but they’ve tried too hard on the inside and it shows.
Their real standpoint is that they love VAG, but could only afford one (he’s got some VW sports thing that it’s more somber than a mortuary inside) so the missus and eldest daughter share the Aygo

2013 ~ 10 years old, a clutch isn't out of the ordinary - although some / many cars may get away with the original throughout their life. Gearbox and clutch issues though, at that age, are most likely down to how the cars been driven / looked after. I don't think the 500 / Panda of this generation were known for having problems with the clutches / gearboxes more than any other car (although I do remember some kind of software issue that made the 500 easy to stall which I saw on some consumer TV show years ago - but I think that was sorted eventually).

Toyota as a brand, I am a fan. I currently have a 2018 Avensis. Although I miss Fiat massively, I have to admit the Avensis is so little trouble that I nearly wish something would go wrong so that I'd have more car stuff to get my hands dirty with!

Back when I had my 2005 Panda and I'd constantly think / look for future cars I tried to get into the Aygo but the exposed metalwork in the car, no real parcel shelf and the fact that anything up to 66% of it might be Peugeot / Citroen parts (and I had a theory it was more so French than Japanese given it was built and designed for the EU market more so than anywhere else). I just couldn't get into it.

As for their mechanic, in fairness most mechanics I've spoken too always started with "They're good little cars those" upfront, in a tone of surprise / that they've shocked me by declaring that. Anybody (much older than me) does say that back in the 80s era, Fiats might have had issues. But these days the only real fault being they're pricy, relatively basic and not appealing to many peoples preference for sharp lines and overly sculpted body panels.

I still don't like VAG. And yet I have test driven cars each time I changed my car. They're soul less. More so than my Toyota. From a Seat to a VW to a Skoda, you're so obviously sitting in what feels like the same plastic bathtub with largely the same fittings (light controls give it away, nearly vomited in my mouth when I saw a Porsche on YouTube that shared that part design too!), and the wing mirrors on a lot of the economy / Golf and below models look very similar on many. The diesels are smoky, loud and give trouble around the 10 year mark (even with people who I know flog them regularly) and the petrols I drove (smaller ones) are dead as a doornail to drive and because of it, feel like you're in a wobbly Polo sized boat that eventually gets to the speed you need. And for the record, my Avensis has a grossly undersized engine for a D-segment car (a 1.6 diesel) but man have Toyota / BMW put the necessary leg work into the turbo / gearbox to make it not a living hell. It's slow, but not dead-as-a-doornail-slow. It's liveable with. whether or not it will age well, we'll see.

With the exception of one uncle who bought a pretty specced out new GTI Golf in 2015, the people in my family and that I know with VAG cars are not really car people. They're happy with their cars, but other than renewing their insurance each year and putting fuel into them, that's it really, they are cars and they do the job. And they rarely keep them to be old enough to have issues. Though one had to pay £600+ for a new radio unit out of warranty from the dealer and didn't have much choice because of how much was tied into the info screen. That's sure to have left a bitter taste. Hopefully your friend has a pleasant experience of them and minimal fuss / expense. To me, that's all they're good for. I couldn't imagine owning one. I don't get the same love / joy out of maintaining and driving my Avensis as I did with my Fiat's. But I can see that being amplified with a VAG car. At least the Toyota is reliable.

 

[porta]

2013 ~ 10 years old, a clutch isn't out of the ordinary - although some / many cars may get away with the original throughout their life. Gearbox and clutch issues though, at that age, are most likely down to how the cars been driven / looked after. I don't think the 500 / Panda of this generation were known for having problems with the clutches / gearboxes more than any other car (although I do remember some kind of software issue that made the 500 easy to stall which I saw on some consumer TV show years ago - but I think that was sorted eventually).

Toyota as a brand, I am a fan. I currently have a 2018 Avensis. Although I miss Fiat massively, I have to admit the Avensis is so little trouble that I nearly wish something would go wrong so that I'd have more car stuff to get my hands dirty with!

Back when I had my 2005 Panda and I'd constantly think / look for future cars I tried to get into the Aygo but the exposed metalwork in the car, no real parcel shelf and the fact that anything up to 66% of it might be Peugeot / Citroen parts (and I had a theory it was more so French than Japanese given it was built and designed for the EU market more so than anywhere else). I just couldn't get into it.

As for their mechanic, in fairness most mechanics I've spoken too always started with "They're good little cars those" upfront, in a tone of surprise / that they've shocked me by declaring that. Anybody (much older than me) does say that back in the 80s era, Fiats might have had issues. But these days the only real fault being they're pricy, relatively basic and not appealing to many peoples preference for sharp lines and overly sculpted body panels.

I still don't like VAG. And yet I have test driven cars each time I changed my car. They're soul less. More so than my Toyota. From a Seat to a VW to a Skoda, you're so obviously sitting in what feels like the same plastic bathtub with largely the same fittings (light controls give it away, nearly vomited in my mouth when I saw a Porsche on YouTube that shared that part design too!), and the wing mirrors on a lot of the economy / Golf and below models look very similar on many. The diesels are smoky, loud and give trouble around the 10 year mark (even with people who I know flog them regularly) and the petrols I drove (smaller ones) are dead as a doornail to drive and because of it, feel like you're in a wobbly Polo sized boat that eventually gets to the speed you need. And for the record, my Avensis has a grossly undersized engine for a D-segment car (a 1.6 diesel) but man have Toyota / BMW put the necessary leg work into the turbo / gearbox to make it not a living hell. It's slow, but not dead-as-a-doornail-slow. It's liveable with. whether or not it will age well, we'll see.

With the exception of one uncle who bought a pretty specced out new GTI Golf in 2015, the people in my family and that I know with VAG cars are not really car people. They're happy with their cars, but other than renewing their insurance each year and putting fuel into them, that's it really, they are cars and they do the job. And they rarely keep them to be old enough to have issues. Though one had to pay £600+ for a new radio unit out of warranty from the dealer and didn't have much choice because of how much was tied into the info screen. That's sure to have left a bitter taste. Hopefully your friend has a pleasant experience of them and minimal fuss / expense. To me, that's all they're good for. I couldn't imagine owning one. I don't get the same love / joy out of maintaining and driving my Avensis as I did with my Fiat's. But I can see that being amplified with a VAG car. At least the Toyota is reliable.

The 500 gearbox issues only became apparent after the clutch was done, a red flag for me, but they trusted their garage.
It was jumping out of second and not centering in neutral. I had that on a panda and it was a loose nut on the top gearbox/selector/cable, (the lower selector one is just a clip and a cable). They were charged £1800 in total for clutch and gearbox rebuild. That’s all it said on the invoice for gearbox ‘rebuild’ and ‘parts’.
Never been a VAG fan and I’ve worked on Seat/Skoda (I liked my Rapide) at dealers and used VW/Audi stuff in the 80’s and 90’s. The golf Gti (first two) were great cars to drive but oooooohhhhhh sooooooooo boring and the seats were uncomfortably hard over any distance.
BMW fall into the same category as generally good but dull, and NOT all of them.
As for Japanese stuff, jimnys, the Datsun/Nissan ‘Z’s, the 120’s, and old Celicas are about my limit of interest

 

[vexorg]

Compared to what other cars? Not in the A-segment.

i10, piccanto, aygo, micra, jazz, clio...

 

[porta]

I think the jazz is definitely screwed together a bit more, but the others on your list are just as plastic or worse and have their own distinct ‘foibles’. The Clio is actually a nice car but is built wafer thin and has electrical issues; all the Hyundai and Kia NEED their long warranties and, those on here with experience of them (myself included as my mum has one) can attest to stupid repeat faults that even dealers can’t sort; the micra, didn’t Autocar famously call it ‘merely competent’, it’s trim and plastic is awful, it’s engines gutless and, with each new one, are more gutless; the only unknown one to me so far, is the Aygo, with a friends wife n daughter only purchasing one 3mths ago, there’s nothing to report
Edit…one thing to report, their keyless entry stopped working leaving them stranded at a supermarket, couldn’t fix at roadside, had to go to dealers for ‘keys’ reprogramming…it’s got a secret ‘key’ but car wouldn’t start

 

[vexorg]

I had brand new i10 as a hire car recently, it was very well specs and felt very solid in build and on the road, had just about every toy you get in a high end car.

There are a few bad stories of the nissan keyless, but we've had one on the jukes for the past 8 years with no issues, and no one really reports problems with them. I've not driven the newest micra, but have an older one and it's a great car in terms of build and performance. That 1.2 engine is a lot sportier than the fiat 1.2

The point is, if I has to buy a new small car right now, then fiat would not be on the list.

 

[SB1500]

i10, piccanto, aygo, micra, jazz, clio...

With the exception of the Jazz (which I totally agree with) these are far worse build quality wise. Maybe better value and better equipped but not better built. I also don’t rate the Clio as better but it’s a B-segment car.

 

[SB1500]

The point is, if I has to buy a new small car right now, then fiat would not be on the list.

I don’t blame you for this given how long the current models have been out and the outrageous new pricing from Fiat at the minute. However, when it comes down to robustness and long term reliability, I still would consider the new-old Fiat models superior in terms of build quality / finish.

But I totally will say they are no match for equipment / value for money - I’ll never argue that. But I’ll argue on build quality all day

 

[porta]

I don’t blame you for this given how long the current models have been out and the outrageous new pricing from Fiat at the minute. However, when it comes down to robustness and long term reliability, I still would consider the new-old Fiat models superior in terms of build quality / finish.

But I totally will say they are no match for equipment / value for money - I’ll never argue that. But I’ll argue on build quality all day

About the only new car I would buy, and it’s purely hypothetical as I’m skint, is the Panda Cross, because I use it as intended and there’s no comparable car (forget the Duster or Ignis they are not as good) or a 500 Abarth just for the hell of it.
Other than Fiat, that I’ve driven and would consider, is the Captur, it’s better built than it’s sort of Duster counterpart. I’m really not bothered about techy’ kit, every time I get in the missus Renegade it try’s to pair my phone, call people or play music…I just want to get in and drive without Siri or the infotainment system reading my blood pressure
It’s horses for courses though, as your list has cars that haven’t an option to fulfill my needs, so it’s like comparing my sit on mower to my 4x4 tractor with topper

 

[vexorg]

I’ll never argue that. But I’ll argue on build quality all day

Given the parts I've had to change on the 500, then I'd agree to disagree. And these parts seem to commonly go across the range not unique to the car - door handles, sump, lower arms, brake caliper seizing, antenna base, fuel cap line, ... all with the car was only around 30k-35k miles and 5 to 6 years old. And the interior and doors doesn't feel like quality material, in my view the build quality was a step down from the corsa c that it replaced.

 

[SB1500]

Given the parts I've had to change on the 500, then I'd agree to disagree. And these parts seem to commonly go across the range not unique to the car - door handles, sump, lower arms, brake caliper seizing, antenna base, fuel cap line, ... all with the car was only around 30k-35k miles and 5 to 6 years old. And the interior and doors doesn't feel like quality material, in my view the build quality was a step down from the corsa c that it replaced.

I think you'd be a fool to presume that those aforementioned cars would be absent of any similar issues. And also, to compare the what I guess was most likely the 1.0 EcoTec or 1.2/1.4 petrol engine from the Corsa C and D engine to the Fiat FIRE engines (or even TwinAir) as those things seemed designed to self-destruct at 100k miles.

I've heard of a couple of issues with some of the things you said on the 500 and others on here who owned them had similar problems. However, not sure about the brake calliper / lower arm issue. Someone else can maybe confirm if that's a common thing. I'd still take the 500 over the all-round poor quality and ride quality of the others.

Your experience is your experience though, and I've not owned a 500 (just two Panda's). I replaced a lot of parts on the older Panda but it was over 10 years old and not well looked after in later years. It's only from that extensive hands on parts all over time that I concluded that the things seem to be put together fairly robustly - especially compared to some bigger more expensive cars we'd fix at the time as well.

 

[vexorg]

It depends how well the car was looked after, the corsa c was a 1.2, still going strong at 120k miles when we sold it. The doors felt solid when you closed them, the engine was very nippy (not like the fiat 1.2 or the corsa D - the D was dire), it felt much more planted on the road, better sound proofing. And yes, it needed parts changed but was was 9 years old and 100k miles when we got it, and lasted another 5 year with no more than typical maintenance of a car of that age. If it had the same issues at 30k miles and 5 years old, I'd have not been impressed.

I think many new cars are owned by new inexperienced drivers that dont know how to look after them, hence why they get a bad rep. But I'm going on my experience of had many dozens of cars over the years, and the 500 is in the cheaper low quanity end. By comparison, my old tipo turbo diesel also felt cheap material wise, but it seemed to be built like a tank and it got a lot of abuse and just kept going never needing more than oil and filter changes, way beyond the mileage of the 500. Had the 500 needed nothing done since we got it,then yes, I'd agree, but personal evidence says otherwise.

 

[SB1500]

It depends how well the car was looked after, the corsa c was a 1.2, still going strong at 120k miles when we sold it. The doors felt solid when you closed them, the engine was very nippy (not like the fiat 1.2 or the corsa D - the D was dire), it felt much more planted on the road, better sound proofing. And yes, it needed parts changed but was was 9 years old and 100k miles when we got it, and lasted another 5 year with no more than typical maintenance of a car of that age. If it had the same issues at 30k miles and 5 years old, I'd have not been impressed.

I think many new cars are owned by new inexperienced drivers that dont know how to look after them, hence why they get a bad rep. But I'm going on my experience of had many dozens of cars over the years, and the 500 is in the cheaper low quanity end. By comparison, my old tipo turbo diesel also felt cheap material wise, but it seemed to be built like a tank and it got a lot of abuse and just kept going never needing more than oil and filter changes, way beyond the mileage of the 500. Had the 500 needed nothing done since we got it,then yes, I'd agree, but personal evidence says otherwise.

Worth noting also that the Corsa C and D are B-segment cars so you would expect a bit more refinement. But having also owned two Corsa C's I definitely would rather take the 500 and deal with the issues you mentioned than kiss it goodbye come 100k miles.

 

[porta]

I’ve mentioned before about mates wife who only buys clios. The one time she didn’t was wehn her grandfather decided to give up driving and gave her his one year old Corsa, after a year of sticking brakes, laquer peel, several silly electrical faults (including the infamous switchgear), drivers door handle that came off in her hand (with half the door card) osf inner wheel arch liner that came adrift, she traded it for a Clio…yes, all but the brakes were sorted under warranty, but it got to the stage that she just couldn’t trust it…everyone has woes about all cars, they’re all much of a muchness now, the good, the bad and the ugly. I buy a vehicle to do a job, yes, I’ve a hankering for Fiats, but that’s mostly classics, the Panda 4x4 however, has always been in my stable