General 10.5 litres/100 km fuel consumption ok ?
- Thread starter Chali
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General 10.5 litres/100 km fuel consumption ok ?
Does your cam sprocket have a round "depression" in it near the bolt like in this picture?
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The Twin cams are done with cam locking tools. Both cam pulleys are fitted loose while the belt is tensioned. Then they are locked into place and camshaft locks removed. Correct tension is when belt can be twisted 90 degrees at its longest straight run.
I would expect the FIRE engines to be much the same. Use the correct cam locking tool and set the crank to the alignment dots (or TDC or half stoke or whatever the book says).
I would expect the FIRE engines to be much the same. Use the correct cam locking tool and set the crank to the alignment dots (or TDC or half stoke or whatever the book says).
It's more complicated than that Dave
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Fair enough. The twin cam looked horrendous but was actually quite easy. It needed to be with the awful access to the job.
If the ops engine has a square oil filler plug (not a round oil filler cap)
The engine should have a cam sprocket that has a locating key to ensure it is bolted to the cam shaft in the correct location- it is not a free wheeling cam sprocket.
Engines with keyed cam sprockets , The cam shaft sensor reads projections that are part of the back of the cam sprocket.
The correct procedure for these engines does not mention special locking tools and is carried out at tdc .
The op has done this correctly, well done.
I think it is now sensible to check that the key has not been broken off the cam sprocket.
There are two ways to do this.
The engine should have a cam sprocket that has a locating key to ensure it is bolted to the cam shaft in the correct location- it is not a free wheeling cam sprocket.
Engines with keyed cam sprockets , The cam shaft sensor reads projections that are part of the back of the cam sprocket.
The correct procedure for these engines does not mention special locking tools and is carried out at tdc .
The op has done this correctly, well done.
I think it is now sensible to check that the key has not been broken off the cam sprocket.
There are two ways to do this.
Yes but is it keyed to cam shaft?
Does it have(useless , if it's freewheel) timing mark near teeth edge?
The vvt and non vvt engines were produced at same time.
Does your engine have round oil filler?
The 60bhps are non vvt
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I take it we are retiming the belt because it was found to be out ?
did you turn the engine over by hand twice and re check the matks
does it still accelerate poorly
if yes is it better if you disconnect the MAP sensor
did you turn the engine over by hand twice and re check the matks
does it still accelerate poorly
if yes is it better if you disconnect the MAP sensor
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OK Jack, I got here. - Thanks for the PM.
I think the first thing I'd like to be sure of is the engine itself. Earlier 60 hp had a keyed cam sprocket so are set up using the marks alone - not timing tools needed. I think, from what I can see, this is what we have here. Later ones, like mine, had no key on the cam sprocket but it was still a solid cast sprocket. I believe these engines were "Pre evo 2 engines" the last of our Pandas, so 2011/12, before the new body shape came in, had the VVT cam sprocket (Evo 2) and was also keyless. - this was the first of the 69 hp engines. I'm pretty sure a good way to tell if you have a keyed or keyless sprocket is to look at the cam cover. If it has a square rubber push in oil filler cap and 4 hold down bolts it's keyed. If it has a round screw down oil cap and 8 hold down bolts it's keyless - I think? It's my belief also that all 60hp motors are non interference so your valves are safe if the belt lets go with the engine running - unless anyone knows different? The 69hp engine is definitely interference.
So, looking at the pictures posted it looks very much to me that the timing on this one is correct. (by the way I don't think the keyless engine has any mark on the cam sprocket/pulley and this one does so that's another pointer to it being keyed.) If it was a keyless one the only way to be really sure is to time it up using the tools which lock the cam and crank in place. However here we almost certainly have a keyed one - please confirm OP - and, it looks to me from the photos that the crank sprocket marks are certainly lining up (scribed line in sprocket to the "step" in the flange on the oil pump casting) The cam marks look good too (the wee indent on the sprocket to the wee indent in the edge of the head) just as your picture shows. Hopefully this is how it looks after the tensioner has been tightened and the crankshaft rotated two revs?
So, with all this looking to be correct, If the timing is still suspect Jacks suggestion to check out the cam lobe positions could be a next step. Take the cam cover off, set no 1 piston at TDC and you should see the cam lobes, for No 1, equally spaced either side of an imaginary vertical line from the centre line of the cam. By this I mean if the cylinder is on the compression stroke the cams will be pointing upwards (so valves closed) about, maybe 20 degrees equally either side of the vertical. If it's on the exhaust stroke they will both be down with one having just allowed the exhaust valve to close and the other just about to open the inlet (often referred to as being "on the rock"). If this is not the case but the timing marks are both, crank and cam, lining up then I'd be taking the cam pulley off first (as It's the easier of the two) to check for key damage and then the crank pulley.
Sorry I've been a wee while in replying but my oldest boy arrived half way through it all to deliver our groceries - He's being a dear and doing our shopping for us as he's frightened we are going to catch this virus. I hope I've covered all the bases here? but as my thinking was interrupted half way through please do query anything you like and I'll try to help if I can. On the face of it it's looking like you've got the cam timing right though, so maybe we are looking at some other problem altogether?
regards
Jock
Engine is square cap, 4 bolts on cam cover
I am now sure you have the belt on correctly .
The lines on the belt only work the first time the belt is fitted , as soon as the engine is turned once the belt lines are no use and it's just the marks on flywheel and pulleys and engine that need to be aligned.
So Chali you did the right thing (-:
Now we need pictures of the cam shaft over cylinder 1 and cylinder 4 with flywheel at 0 mark.
Remember to reset your fuel consumption indicator to zero so it measures the current consumption.
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Yup absolutely Jack. In fact I don't pay any heed to those lines, just make sure the pulley/sprocket marks are lined up and DOR arrows, if there are any, are facing the right way.
If the cam position looks ok visually when you take the cover off (so nothing obvious looks to be out of order) I rather like the idea - as mentioned by someone earlier - of disconnecting the MAP sensor. (a wee black component fitted into the left side - left when sitting behind the wheel - of the air intake throttle body). it's held in my just one fixing. Just unplug it. The engine will then run using it's open circuit stored fuel map which, These engines don't have a MAF so the MAP plays a major roll in determining fueling, if the MAP sensor is faulty the engine should run nicely on the stored fuel mapping but less economically than with the MAP connected. If it doesn't run well this way it's likely something else is the problem.
Doing this will throw a fault code which the ECU will store but when you plug the MAP back in it'll run on the MAP sensor info just like it should. Next time you have access to a scanner you can wipe it. What I mean is that the stored code will not in this instance affect running.
PS MAP (manifold absolute pressure) and fuel mapping which is a program stored in the ECU are two different things.
Kind regards - good luck. Please do keep us updated on your progress?
Jock
I will do it in next week .
does it run better or worse with the MAP disconnected ?
I haven’t tested it yet,
I am on tour of Itlay, wondering if parts Would be of same price here or cheap ?
On a tour of Italy! How have you managed that?
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Fiat Parts in Italy are usually dirt cheap but dont forget the exchange rate.
My brother used to live in Ivrea near Turin. His Uno carb was getting worn so he went to the parts dealer with a list of jets and screws he needed. As he read them out the bloke just stood there nodding. When done he says. "do you really want all that lot." Of course. "I wondered because a brand new OEM carb is €20 - and it includes gaskets."
Obviously not on that panda but on my other highway car
