bimmer said:

I looked up the ITV (MOT) manual for axles.
There is no specific failure for any welding that has taken place provided the axle is secure and the welding is "sufficient".

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For info, here's the line form the UK test manual:

"Welded repairs to highly stressed components [defined a couple of paragraphs back as 'such as steering and suspension arms, rods and levers'] are not normally acceptable, other than where the component is made up of sections that are welded together. To pass, the repair should appear to be as strong as the original design."... although its not clear whether the torsion beam counts as such a component.

(Section 6, here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...appendix-a-structural-integrity-and-corrosion)

I spoke to the guy with the 500L whose axle cracked thru. Now that axle looks more substantial than the Panda. He never carries weight in the back and only has a 2km track. He will send me some photos later (and i will post). FIAT quoted 1000€ for a bare axle, in the end they found a complete second hand one. They denied any liability for the damage.
IF the axle welds hold up then I will carry on. If they crack again I will get another axle and weld a 4/5mm x 25mm bar across the lower edge of the beam beyond the drill holes. Those holes BTW, did their job, they stopped the crack travelling all the way around the beam.

Well it very rapidly happened, ErIndoors driving, luckily just up the zig zag driveway.
Started at 10 to 6 and was out by 5 past 7. Not bad on the floor and only one small trolley jack.
I see there is a flitch to the outside of the drill hole (to where the crack went).
I think another flitch to the inside would help and a 200mm bridge over each crack area. Being off the car we can make it as "original" as possible. Keep the testers eye off it. They won't see enough to know it's not standard.
Chuck it in the back of the Dacia Rogan Josh (it's not mine) Monday to the welderup shop.

WOW, making me want to trade the Panda in

Leroypanda said:

WOW, making me want to trade the Panda in

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For what?

varesecrazy said:

For what?

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ummmm, struggling there, but something that doesnt have a clown rear axle.

I'm quite shocked at this failure. Can you possibly post us a picture of the road surface of your track which has caused this damage?

Mother of God, that's a horrendous crack!

gar074 said:

Mother of God, that's a horrendous crack!

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The previous (first) weld has failed I presume... looks like it’s been fixed there before.

Leroypanda said:

ummmm, struggling there, but something that doesnt have a clown rear axle.

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Why? Do you also live at the far end of a 5km dirt track? If not, really think have nothing to fear

These guys did a lot of prep to cross Africa in a Panda. But the rear suspension seems to be pretty standard? Any tips in this piece - http://www.africarecordrun.com/team.html

The axle cracked again there probably as the steel isn't the right grade to welde very well it Allmost certainly needs some sort of strenthing plate over the top of the weld now

Herts Hillhopper said:

These guys did a lot of prep to cross Africa in a Panda. But the rear suspension seems to be pretty standard? Any tips in this piece - http://www.africarecordrun.com/team.html

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It seems to say..

Dampers and springs built

SUSPENSION by Gaz

Rear suspension used factory mount points

Plenty of scope for interpretation there..
Could be all new build and spec.. just using the FIAT mounts

I do recall it was on VAN WHEELS (14")

It should all be visible in Philip Youngs posts on here


I never got to meet the car or team.. despite it all starting a couple of miles from me

I did ask a lot of TA Questions though.. as I was waiting for delivery of my 2012



To me this panda spent less time in harsh conditions than a Spanish Panda..
Afterall it was a timetrial.. why play in the sand when you can be doing 100mph on asphalt

Judging by photo no.9, the rear axle looks standard...

chris3234 said:

The axle cracked again there probably as the steel isn't the right grade to welde very well it Allmost certainly needs some sort of strenthing plate over the top of the weld now

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Yup, as I said a bit earlier in the thread, higher carbon/spring type steels don't take well to being welded with the sort of equipment folks like us can afford. Something to remember if you are thinking of doing a welded repair to a structural part of a modern car where "High Strength Steel" may have been used in construction rather than just "ordinary" mild steel as in days of yore.

gar074 said:

Judging by photo no.9, the rear axle looks standard...

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That was my take. They changed the rear springs and shocks, but did nothing to the beam as far as I can see. At the front, they strengthened the power arms (adding a plate on the bottom to make them a box section), and strengthened the top mounts.

Morning all: The first crack on the right hand side was welded by a MIG in the workshop. This has held up.
Because the second crack failed at home, the welder only had a portable ARC welder and he did say this isn't ideal for this type of repair.
It was this ARC weld that failed within days, once again at home so I had no choice but to take out the axle and take it to the shop. A good man that he is said he would open up sunday morning for me. 45mins and it was repaired. MIG'd both sides again. Then on the rear lower inner side welded 2 25mm x 5mm x 200mm flat steel. Instead of welding fully along the length he "stitch" welded, doing 25mm, gap, 25mm all along.
I've no photos at the mo, will post tomorrow inc. track photos.
Today is pub day so I'll put the axle back in tomoz PM.
Herts Hillhopper: You have nothing to fear on your nice tarmac roads. I live 1850ft ASL on the side of a mountain in Bum F**K Nowhere, tarmac ain't reached us yet!
Remember I am not unique, the 500L suffered too on a shorter track, waiting photos for that one.

bimmer said:

Morning all: The first crack on the right hand side was welded by a MIG in the workshop. This has held up.
Because the second crack failed at home, the welder only had a portable ARC welder and he did say this isn't ideal for this type of repair....

Herts Hillhopper: You have nothing to fear on your nice tarmac roads. I live 1850ft ASL on the side of a mountain in Bum F**K Nowhere, tarmac ain't reached us yet!....

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Thanks - it was actually Leroypanda who seemed to think your beam failing meant they should look to change their Panda for fear theirs too would fail. My reply (to them) was like yours – no worries if you're driving on tarmac roads.

And, MIG welding with the added plates sounds like a good secure fix.

The track photos don't do the roughness obvious however what you can see they are all at an angle to the direction of travel causing the axle to twist on passing.
The modification plate. Some seam sealer and paint, job done.

Hi.
Some pictures of the City cross beam.
There is 12 in all split over three posts.
Cant measure it all though as my knee is giving me gyp.