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"smart" motorways

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"smart" motorways

GeorgeDamper said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-56089258
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From that article

“In March, the government published a report which found that "in most ways smart motorways are as safe as, or safer than, conventional ones", the agency added.”

In the Same period how many serious or fatal accidents have occurred on non ‘smart’ motorways?

It’s a bit like the same arguments people make against self driving cars, their is one incident where a driver has a nap in self drive modes a lorry pulls across in front of the car and the system doesn’t pick up on it in time to prevent the accident. Is it the fault of the self driving car or is it the fault of the lorry pulling across? Should the car be blamed when the driver is a sleep.

Should a motorway be blamed in a situation when a lorry driver is being distracted or when drivers stop for no good reason in a live lane ?
 
Personally I think Smart Motorway is a classic oxymoron. The first time I saw them I was uncomfortable with the concept. I would imagine many older drivers haven’t even used them.

I drive a lot in Europe and the States and have not come across them in either locations.

Have any other countries implemented Smart Motorways?
 
I've just googled for a map of the smart motorways and noticed that I can miss most of them out on the M6 by going down the A449. Back in the '60s one of my best friends lived in Kidderminster and I used to branch off the M6 and head on down on the A449 to get to his house. Next time, whenever we are again allowed, I just might try it when on our way to Devon or maybe even Salisbury. Of course the traffic might be a bit more of a problem these days. Anyone live down that way? What do you think? Would it be worth doing or am I just going to sit in traffic jams?
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
I've just googled for a map of the smart motorways and noticed that I can miss most of them out on the M6 by going down the A449. Back in the '60s one of my best friends lived in Kidderminster and I used to branch off the M6 and head on down on the A449 to get to his house. Next time, whenever we are again allowed, I just might try it when on our way to Devon or maybe even Salisbury. Of course the traffic might be a bit more of a problem these days. Anyone live down that way? What do you think? Would it be worth doing or am I just going to sit in traffic jams?
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I was doing a regular run from Bristol the Stafford when the M5 was being Smartified, so tried the A449. OMG it was slow. Not really clogged just impossible to make any progress.

There is another option. Leave M6 North of Birmingham for the M56 to Telford. Then go Ironbridge, Ludlow, Leominster, Hereford, Ross on Wye and back to the M5. It absolutely will not save any time but it's a very pretty route. You could even miss Hereford and go all the way to Newport. Then take M4 across the Severn. There are no tolls to leave Wales.

Personally, I would put up with the stupidity of the "smart" motorways and just get though the West Midlands as quickly as reasonably possible.
 
Thanks folks. I don't know anyone who now lives in the midlands so the only reason for doing the detour would be to avoid the "smart" motorway. I think Dave's probably got it nailed when he says to just "bite the bullet" and get through it all as quickly as possible on the motorway. I recently bought a yellow LED flashing strobe light with magnetic base specifically so I would have something to put on the roof as a warning that we'd broken down. When I was at college in London I used to do the journey back to Scotland (and the return to the south) overnight. It was a good way to do it as the roads were very quiet after about 10pm. I'd love to try it again but I'm worried this old body wouldn't be up to it.
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
Thanks folks. I don't know anyone who now lives in the midlands so the only reason for doing the detour would be to avoid the "smart" motorway. I think Dave's probably got it nailed when he says to just "bite the bullet" and get through it all as quickly as possible on the motorway. I recently bought a yellow LED flashing strobe light with magnetic base specifically so I would have something to put on the roof as a warning that we'd broken down. When I was at college in London I used to do the journey back to Scotland (and the return to the south) overnight. It was a good way to do it as the roads were very quiet after about 10pm. I'd love to try it again but I'm worried this old body wouldn't be up to it.
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Hi Jock,

on the Midlands smart motorway network.

Obey reduced speed limits displayed on overhead illuminated signs.
Beware you could be forced to slow to 60 and the next sign may be a 50 - they look similar but be sure to be going 50 or less by the time you go under the 50 sign.

If vehicle starts playing up try and make it to a refuge area . Do not re-join motorway without using the emergency phone at the refuge area for help.

If you end up driving on what used to be hard shoulder be aware that is where any broken down vehicles are likely to be stopped.



Best wishes
Jack
 
Thanks Jack. I'm not too worried about the speed limits - although I suppose anyone can get caught out by inattention - I don't even speed on national limit stretches of "quiet" roads further north and I tend to let her poodle along on the cruise which, as long as I set it correctly should keep me within compliance in monitored roadworks. I'm always quite surprised when, in an average speed camera area and with my cruise set on 40mph (or whatever it is) and everyone else around me going along at the same rate, some cars continue to overtake with, what I would judge to be, at least 10mph more than us. Are these just rich people who don't care?

What a good point you make about being extra vigilant in the inside lane on these roads. Old Mr Scott, who taught me to drive all those years ago, was very keen on always looking as far ahead as you possibly can. He would get you to look as far ahead as you could every time you came round a corner - there were no motorways then - and then work back towards the car. His reasoning was that by doing this if something unexpected was happening close by you would likely notice it anyway but if "serious stuff" was happening further up the road you would notice it in plenty of time. I found this stood me in particularly good stead on the occasion I came over the breast of a hill on the old A74 at around 70 mph in my old Cortina only to find the whole road ahead blocked by a multi car pile up. Had I not been doing as he recommended I might well have become part of the incident. So, on motorways, I'm continually looking a long way ahead "just in case". Alarmingly my perception is that many of my fellow travelers are only intent on looking at the back of the car in front! High level brake lights are a great invention aren't they?
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
Thanks Jack. I'm not too worrid..
Alarmingly my perception is that many of my fellow travelers are only intent on looking at the back of the car in front! High level brake lights are a great invention aren't they?
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My take on the tailgaters..

Its much less of an impact if you are only 3 feet from the other vehicle as it slows.. ;)

Inattention is the biggest danger.. you are correct there.. like you Ive spent a lifetime attempting to see 1/2 mile up the road

Yesterdays example:
Matrix read 'reports of debris'

The trucks were all in convoy and the German car lane was similar.. but +30mph

On all the lengthy bends -'long sweepers'

I positioned myself so I could see the road position..and brakelights.. of the lead vehicles

After 15 miles I found a plastic orange barrier laid flat in lane 2..

15 miles further and into the approaches to M4/M5 Almondsbury Interchange,Bristol

Some eejit in a small van used all 4 lanes to turn left.. driving like an arcade game

The odd occasion where I would like a dash cam..


BTW- no tolls into Wales .. all came down a couple of years ago.. so I now pay ZERO into the French Economy ;)
 
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varesecrazy said:
My take on the tailgaters..

Its much less of an impact if you are only 3 feet from the other vehicle as it slows.. ;)

On all the lengthy bends -'long sweepers'

I positioned myself so I could see the road position..and brakelights.. of the lead vehicles

Some eejit in a small van used all 4 lanes to turn left.. driving like an arcade game

BTW- no tolls into Wales .. all came down a couple of years ago.. so I now pay ZERO into the French Economy ;)
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That's an interesting observation on tailgating. Doesn't help much if you're all piling into a stationary HGV etc though?

Positioning on "long sweepers". I remember on the IAM assessment I did all those years ago when I worked at the DAF Dealer I was introduced to a concept which has never really sat well with me. It is that you should always position your vehicle so you can maximize your line of sight around any corner/bend. I would agree that, on initial consideration and as a general concept, this would seem to be entirely logical. However when I was encouraged to drive so as to achieve it I wasn't so sure. I was instructed when going round a left hander to position the vehicle out near the white line and stay there as you negotiate the corner - ie, no cutting - thus maximizing sight lines due to anything on the verge which might block the line of sight. On right handers you were to do the same only following the kerb. In practice I've found this way of positioning your vehicle is fraught with problems because of the vast majority of other motorists are not doing this, consequently, on left handers you will meet people who are cutting the white line whilst on right handers you are running your tyres into all the debris and gunge which has been swept to the outside of the bend by everyone else who is cutting the corner. "Long Sweepers" are actually one of the very few situations where you can safely do it to good advantage. More than any other innovation of recent time I really like high level brake lights and hate being behind a large van or lorry on the motorway where I am prevented form direct sight lines.

Not just small vans with eejits in them. Last time we did the Devon trip there was an older Jag saloon in the midlands which came up on us at a fierce rate of knots in the outside lane where another motorway branched off to the left, probably overtaking us with at least a 30mph speed difference, definitely exceeding the limit - we were just going with the flow and the traffic density was very high - and then, very aggressively, chopped across all the lanes, making everyone brake in shock, and sped off down the other motorway. I think there is a definite problem with a small number of local drivers in the midland area who probably drive these routes every day and know exactly where they are going and are probably fed up with us long distance "virgins" to the area who are blocking their ballistic progress. I doubt if we ever go through this densely populated, car wise, part of the country without witnessing several absolutely lunatic driving maneuvers.

Thanks for the info on the welsh bridge. Last I heard was that loads of people were being caught out by the payment method because you couldn't pay with cash and had to do some complicated mobile phone/computer payment before crossing. If your efforts failed you were subsequently strung up by the thumbs for a fortnight or some other inappropriate penalty. One of the best holidays we had soon after we were married was camping near St Davids in our old DAF 44 before the kids came along. I've often thought maybe we should do a quick overnight just so we can have a walk around and see how it's changed - if at all - since the late '60s. Would make a nice wee diversion on one of our trips down to Devon.
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
That's an interesting observation on tailgating. Doesn't help much if you're all piling into a stationary HGV

One of the best holidays we had soon after we were married was camping near St Davids in our old DAF 44 before the kids came along. I've often thought maybe we should do a quick overnight just so we can have a walk around and see how it's changed - if at all - since the late '60s. Would make a nice wee diversion on one of our trips down to Devon.
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T tailgaiting quote was a little
'tongue in cheek'


Souther Wales is 'just over the water' from Englands South Western tourist Mecca


Im sure a ferry service for the 3 summer months would be viable :)

2 hour crossing would save 3 hours driving.. and 1.5 hours charging your E.V. halfway there ;)
 
Re: "smart" motorways

varesecrazy said:
T tailgaiting quote was a little
'tongue in cheek'


Souther Wales is 'just over the water' from Englands South Western tourist Mecca


Im sure a ferry service for the 3 summer months would be viable :)

2 hour crossing would save 3 hours driving.. and 1.5 hours charging your E.V. halfway there ;)
Click to expand...
I believe during non cv19 times there is a pedestrian passenger service between South Wales and the South West of England , North Devon?
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
Positioning on "long sweepers". I remember on the IAM assessment I did all those years ago when I worked at the DAF Dealer I was introduced to a concept which has never really sat well with me. It is that you should always position your vehicle so you can maximize your line of sight around any corner/bend. I would agree that, on initial consideration and as a general concept, this would seem to be entirely logical.
Click to expand...

This is still part of the teaching in any advanced driving books, including the baseline for it all, Roadcraft. There is less emphasis on it these days, as the advantage with a car is minimal. Still works well for motorcyclists.
With any assessment, there is limited time. This technique needs a lot more work than that, as there is a lot of assessment needed by the driver before changing position away from the centre of his lane. Likelihood of oncoming cutting, how much extra view can be gained, and for what benefit. Extending the view by a few yards allows hardly any extra speed, or reaction time, but can increase risk, as you say. Position in any lane now mostly depends on the road surface, or lack of it. Priority order should always be, safety, stability, view.

Last time I used the A449 through Kidderminster, probablyu around 10 years ago, it was very slow, as described above. Only viable to avoid a complete motorway closure. I doubt it has improved since then.

An alternative might be M6 Toll, then M42, to either M5 or M40. M40 will take you to the A34, heavy traffic down past Oxford, then eases and gives a good flow all the way to Winchester and the M3. Off at Winchester, A30 to Salisbury, still a nice road.
M40 is horrid though. Seems to attract the worst idiots, as well as being somehow a very boring road, leading to inattention. (If anyone was paying attention to start with) Lots of stupidity, and a need to stay alert. Left lane mostly empty though.
 
portland_bill said:
Still works well for motorcyclists.

Last time I used the A449 through Kidderminster, probablyu around 10 years ago, it was very slow, as described above. Only viable to avoid a complete motorway closure. I doubt it has improved since then.

An alternative might be M6 Toll, then M42, to either M5 or M40. M40 will take you to the A34, heavy traffic down past Oxford, then eases and gives a good flow all the way to Winchester and the M3. Off at Winchester, A30 to Salisbury, still a nice road.
M40 is horrid though. Seems to attract the worst idiots, as well as being somehow a very boring road, leading to inattention. (If anyone was paying attention to start with) Lots of stupidity, and a need to stay alert. Left lane mostly empty though.
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I totally get it on a bike though. "Ride high"?

Looks like the A449 is probably a bit of a waste of time then.

Going to Salisbury - just north of actually - if we are going the M6 we go on down to the M5 and branch off around Glouster, then down through Cirencester and Swindon. Seems to work quite well if you just follow along with everyone else.

We've done it by coming down on the A1/M1 a couple of times then cutting cross country to Bicester and south past Abingdon on the A34 'till it hits the A303 and along that takes us almost to our destination.

There's very little in it journey time wise but I think there is a lot more "smart" mileage on the M1? also I have to rely on Mrs J map reading if we go that way whereas going the M6 I can do it mostly from memory.
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
Going to Salisbury - just north of actually - if we are going the M6 we go on down to the M5 and branch off around Glouster, then down through Cirencester and Swindon. Seems to work quite well if you just follow along with everyone else.
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The route from Gloucester junction down to Swindon is good. There can be a bit of a delay up the hill and around the bend past the Air Balloon pub and up to the top of Birdlip hill, but then it becomes a dual carriageway again, all the way to the M4.

Normal peak times can add 20-30 minutes around Birdlip. I'm told the pub has been compulsorily purchased and plans are afoot to bring it dual all through. So some extra delays for a while, then much better.

Last week, this week, and next, I am travelling this route two days a week, usually joining at Cirencester to go to Cheltenham, but having to be in Cheltenham for 7am, I'm missing the peak delays.

Once past the M4, the road to Salisbury becomes single carriageway and slow. No significant passing places, except a short stretch just before Tidworth
Chip shop in Tidworth is good, if hungry at that point.
If passing through Marlborough with time, along the lower part of the town centre is a wonderful cafe, The Polly Tea Rooms. A bit posh, and a little more expensive as a result, but beautiful silver tea pots, nice china cups, and a wonderful selection of cakes and scones. A wonderful treat.

Hopefully Jock, one day you'll be able to travel this way again.
 
portland_bill said:
The route from Gloucester junction down to Swindon is good. There can be a bit of a delay up the hill and around the bend past the Air Balloon pub and up to the top of Birdlip hill, but then it becomes a dual carriageway again, all the way to the M4.

Normal peak times can add 20-30 minutes around Birdlip. I'm told the pub has been compulsorily purchased and plans are afoot to bring it dual all through. So some extra delays for a while, then much better.

Last week, this week, and next, I am travelling this route two days a week, usually joining at Cirencester to go to Cheltenham, but having to be in Cheltenham for 7am, I'm missing the peak delays.

Once past the M4, the road to Salisbury becomes single carriageway and slow. No significant passing places, except a short stretch just before Tidworth
Chip shop in Tidworth is good, if hungry at that point.
If passing through Marlborough with time, along the lower part of the town centre is a wonderful cafe, The Polly Tea Rooms. A bit posh, and a little more expensive as a result, but beautiful silver tea pots, nice china cups, and a wonderful selection of cakes and scones. A wonderful treat.

Hopefully Jock, one day you'll be able to travel this way again.
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Thanks for all that PB, I like the sound of that tea room!

Yes that road is quite slow but by the time we've got there we are quite tired so I'm taking extra care and certainly not driving fast, just going with the majority of stuff around us. so It's not really annoying.

Once through Tidworth we've not all that far to go as we are then heading over in the Amesbury direction. Unfortunately I probably couldn't make a good case for stopping that near to journey's end with daughter having the kettle on and ready.

One things for sure, all else being equal, we will be down that way as soon as the weather and travel restrictions allow. Probably make a real "road trip" of it and go to stay with Mrs J's sister in Devon too and call on some of our old friends from our "London Days" most of whom seem to have moved into the west country after retiring.
 
If you normally take the A1 - A303 then stay with that. It avoids Brum and Manchester. But avoid at peak times and absolutely avoid on bank holidays.

You could fly to Exeter and hire a car. But last time I looked flights alone were on the HOW MUCH!!! side of silly money.
 
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