They got caught out by Euro policy..

Had invested too heavily in other tech.

This is only their 2nd electrically propelled build of the 21st Century..
more in the pipeline..

But what the FCASA merger does to the various groups tech..
Time will tell

Not really a hybrid, just on paper, doesn’t move under electric power, battery not powerful enough to propel the car the motor just starts the engine it is essentially a over engineered stop start system, and we know how good fiat are at stop start.

AndyRKett said:

Not really a hybrid, just on paper, doesn’t move under electric power, battery not powerful enough to propel the car the motor just starts the engine it is essentially a over engineered stop start system, and we know how good fiat are at stop start.

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I suppose “hybrid” is just the fact there’s an extra battery involved then.

Probably just to meet the latest guidelines for emissions.

Or to give people like me the illusion Fiat are “high tech” [emoji28]

Having watched the video Fiat are in trouble. The cars look great but a belt driven motor/generator really is not going to do much more than ease out the power surges of city driving.

Ok, I've just watched the whole video and I think I get it all except what's "Sailing" all about? Looks to me like he's just knocked it into neutral and is letting it coast? Just what informed advice says we shouldn't do? The schematic doesn't show power flowing to the electric motor and the speedo shows the car is slowing but does seem to show the IC engine to be still ticking over? Isn't this coasting?

I get the energy recovery and accelerate assist this then gives and can see a benefit to this but that small battery is going to be working quite hard isn't it? constantly going through significant charge/discharge cycling. Wonder how long it will last? Bet it won't be cheap to replace.

I got a bit obsessed with Hybrids before I finally plumped for the Ibiza and decided that the way Toyota do it is probably the best. I especially like their mechanical power train. However I finally decided that the whole concept is somewhat flawed from the owners perspective. You have all the complexity of the IC engine with all the electronics etc which any car has today but, on top of that, you're adding a very expensive battery and a whole raft of electronics and control gear to handle the electric drive side of things. The Toyotas do seem to be quite exceptionally reliable - look at how many private hire taxis choose to run them - but I just couldn't "see" it when compared with the price and relative simplicity of the petrol engined Ibiza. (please note I said "relative" simplicity - no car is "simple" these days)

I blame the legislation requirements, because from 2010-2020 we've only really had failed concepts - the DPF and complexity / problems it caused with no real improvement to owner experience or the environment on the Diesel side. On the Petrol side we've had tiny engines with big turbo's and as fun as they are, they're not lasting as long, not achieving any better efficiency etc...


That's a decade of flawed innovation and not really getting much further with Petrols / Diesels.


At least we have Tesla and other R&D to show for the decade, but I feel we're not getting much closer to any significant winner or result

The internal combustion engine has the massive flaw that it's horrendously wasteful in both fuel and maintenance / repair costs. The petrol (gasoline) engine will struggle to better 25%. three quarters of that amazingly high tech product is just thrown away. That's completely ignoring the costs and energy used to pump, refine and transport the stuff.

There seems to be no interest in making any fundamental difference to the engine itself. W still have cranks pistons valves etc that suck heat away without adding value in terms of moving the car forwards.

Fiat gave us the Multi Air but that's gone quiet of late. Ive previously mentioned the Ford 2 strokes that were stifled by regulatory wording. Konsiegg of course is way too late to the party. China is going electric and they were the potential customers for the design.

There's also the liquid piston rotary that avoids the problems inherent in the Wankel by running an oval rotor inside a triangular case with a combustion chamber on each corner. It has a long blow-down period so extracts lots of energy so much that it hardly needs an exhaust silencer. Has anyone heard of it? Of course not. Car manufacturers do not do lateral thinking.

Popped a headlamp bulb on the way home, normally annoying as they aren't your usual ones you can pick up in a service station. Being a jazzy Phillips set even if I find the correct bulb at a service station or halfords they won't match in colour or brightness.

Thankfully past self considered future self when a bulb popped last time and bought a pair, removed both including the working old bulb and put it away safe. So dug it it out and I have a 3 year old one in the passenger side currently and about an 18 month old one drivers side.

As the both the lamps were the same age I'll replace the pair again but it gets me out jail until the others arrive in the post in about 5 days.

Thankfully headlamps are literally 30 second job with no tools or disassembly required.

DaveMcT said:

The internal combustion engine has the massive flaw that it's NON.GREEN

Fiat gave us the Multi Air but that's gone quiet of late. Ive previously mentioned the Ford 2 strokes

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THE PROBLEM..

they all have to sell cars.. make a profit.. but in a 'safe' way
thanks accountants..

I dont see anybody other than VAG.. or big budget niche having a chance to push the envelope

Look at Fiats past 30 years..
Legacy twincams
Battery city cars
Multijet diesel
Multiair petrol
Hydrogen city cars


The MOTOR tech is an 'earner'..sold on to the world

Jag are using Multiair to meet the latest emissions (WTAF) on their
'Stuck with petrols' line.up

But they were too early with battery..
And euro policy isnt embracing hydrogen

I must admit, I do feel that the impending ban is just going to result in a lot of cock ups, with regards to both infrastructure, and the cars themselves.

Another thought I had when I saw a new London taxi the other day: where will the ban in its current form stand with vehicles like that? The understanding I have is that technically, those taxis aren't traditional hybrids: they're primarily electrically driven, with a small petrol engine there purely to act as an emergency generator if the battery starts getting low. Will the ban still apply to range extended electric cars?

An additional consideration: what's going to happen with vans and lorries? I doubt that they're suitable for solely electric propulsion?

The new london taxis have a little engine to trickle charge the battery, this is to allow a full day’s work without having to stop and charge, it’s worth noting however that there are a few of these new taxis in Norwich and they spend quite long periods Parked up at taxi ranks in queues waiting to get to the front of the queue before they head out again, installed chargers at taxi ranks would negate the need for the a range extender.

It’s worth noting that these taxis and the new lotus Evija are in essence made by the same company (Geely) and the Evija can charge to a full battery in just 10 minutes with up to 800kw charging, this technology already exists so for the likes of taxi charging they could very quickly charge up to head out back to work.

If you go to London there are already many electric vans on the street, a few electric lorries, but obviously this is something still being developed

Some people say the Tesla "See-my" is a bad idea, because the batteries use up a couple or three tons of payload. Indeed, but, how many HGVs actually push against the weight limit. Trailer volume is a much bigger issue. The huge curtain siders delivering to supermarkets rarely run at full load, though they will be full to capacity.

Tesla China is rumoured to be going to LiFePO4 cells. These are genuine solid state, but have less energy capacity per weight and volume than Li-Ion cells but they are cheaper and more easily packaged. The battery pack is likely much the same and they are fully tolerant of charging to 100%. They will get trashed if over discharged but they are MUCH safer if over charged and they don't develop lithium crystals which kill the wet electrolyte type.

Will these be what goes into the Truck, Semi, vans and "low cost" China market cars?

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/lithium_based_batteries

Clay’d polished and waxed the car today, now looks super shiny, now tucked a way in its garage out of the bad weather.

So this is what a Full Service History pollen filter looks like:yuck:

I didn't bother changing it last service just after I got the car because, well, I had lots of more important things to do on the car, surely it doesn't need changing every year does it, and how bad can it be if the car has FSH (main dealer until 2012, then Kwik-Fit)?

Ah, right. Thanks guys. Pulled a nice pile of botanical detritus out with it too.

This. Beautiful car, beautiful country.

SB1500 said:

This. Beautiful car, beautiful country.

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It certainly is! Beautiful grin too, I might add

Where is that? We took our Panda camping along the Antrim coast & Donegal last spring, would love to go back. Wonderful coast, quiet and what people there were were super friendly.

Passed through Portrush & Portstewart just after the North West 200, have to time it a smidge earlier next time...

rmjbn1 said:

It certainly is! Beautiful grin too, I might add

Where is that? We took our Panda camping along the Antrim coast & Donegal last spring, would love to go back. Wonderful coast, quiet and what people there were were super friendly.

Passed through Portrush & Portstewart just after the North West 200, have to time it a smidge earlier next time...

Click to expand...

Thanks!

That’s the cliffs above Magilligan Point, very close to Portrush / Portstewart on the North Coast of Northern Ireland.

I’ve met a friend from Spain whose here to learn English for a few months and I’m showing her some of the nicer parts of the country. She blends in a lot nicer with the scenery than I do, I must admit!! Lol

rmjbn1 said:

So this is what a Full Service History pollen filter looks like:yuck:

how bad can it be if the car has FSH (main dealer until 2012, then Kwik-Fit)?

Click to expand...

The answer is obviously "this bad"!

Looking at the reinforced ends on the filter element I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't a carbon impregnated jobbie? in which case it would have looked a little grey/black when fitted new, however even taking that into account your's is impressively dirty!

Main dealers tend to fit carbon filters whereas KF? So, if I had to put money on it my guess would be that it's not seen the light of day since 2012 - or earlier.

As to how often to replace them? For all that they cost I do our vehicles every year. They probably don't need to be done that often but I have long wondered how many blower motor resistors burn out because of reduced air flow due to partially blocked cabin filters. I can only remember doing one on family cars, and that was years ago, and we all tend to drive around with fans at "slow" which is, of course, putting the greatest strain on the resistor.

All season tyres...

So from snow yesterday morning, to rivers of melt water at lower levels yesterday afternoon to a lovely combination of slush + some liquid melt water running over ice this morning car has been lovely and stable.

TCS and ABS has been rarely required which compared to the old Goodyear efficientgrip summer tyres is a definite difference.

Think I shall put a set on my new car when it arrives, dry handling/feel isn't the best but given it's used mainly for rolling to and from work and as a family wagon it's unlikely I'm going to be hitting track days.

Wouldn't go full winter though as if anything it's been a mild winter to now and 1 morning doesn't justify a proper snow tyre!