Technical Top front suspension mount failures

[petelobus]

I've now had my Panda Multijet for the best part of 5 years. I've found it a great car BUT every MoT it needs both top front suspension mounts changed. Is this normal? I've never changed one of these (let alone 6) on other cars in around 500 000 miles of motoring. So far I've used pattern mounts which seem pretty poor - there are no apparent seals in them. Is it worth fitting genuine, or is there some sort of a gaiter missing?

Any advice appreciated!

Thanks

Ian

 

[irc]

Panda MJ is a bit hard on top mounts, but we usually get at least 3 or 4 years, even on Norfolk roads. I usually use Original Birth top mounts, although I have used others too. It is definitely possible you are using cheap brands, some of which are not great (I've even had some cheap ones which had precisely NO grease in the bearing on delivery).

Although... I have heard of MOT testers failing cars because the suspension leg moves when it has no weight on it. This should not fail the MOT, as it is designed to do that.

You could try adding some extra grease to the next set and see it it helps.

 

[jrkitching]

I have heard of MOT testers failing cars because the suspension leg moves when it has no weight on it. This should not fail the MOT, as it is designed to do that.

:yeahthat:

and the MOT testers manual makes this quite clear.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I've now had my Panda Multijet for the best part of 5 years. I've found it a great car BUT every MoT it needs both top front suspension mounts changed. Is this normal? I've never changed one of these (let alone 6) on other cars in around 500 000 miles of motoring. So far I've used pattern mounts which seem pretty poor - there are no apparent seals in them. Is it worth fitting genuine, or is there some sort of a gaiter missing?

Any advice appreciated!

Thanks

Ian

This sounds mad and unbelievable. Try a different MOT station / tester. You must be doing a lot of off road driving if its really wearing that fast.

 

[koalar]

No they should Last quite I long time. It not a common fail on the Panda. Normally people change them due to noise long before they fail a MOT

they can last 15 years and 200K in the lighter 1.1 engine

in a Panda or Punto I normally get a near side strut to leak before

there are too many variables to know whats going on

incorrectly tested
engine spraying it with oil
incorrectly fitted
substandard parts
driving style
Road humps, potholes

and so on



if you change things yourself. You get to see the state of the old part and what caused it to fail

 

[irc]

. Normally people change them due to noise long before they fail a MOT

Quite so... I can't remember the last time I had one actually fail an MOT, but I have had to change quite a few from failed ball bearings, usually nearside (combination of Norfolk potholes and heavier MJ engine).

Creaks and juddering when turning steering wheel seem to be lack of grease, mostly on cheap ones or cars that spend too much of their life sitting unused.

 

[petelobus]

Thanks for the prompt replies!


I looked at the last one that failed (I tend not to change them these days, but asked the garage to let me have the old one). The balls in the bearing were completely rusty and well pitted - there seems to be no seal preventing the water getting in - so the MoT guy was right! Car does about 20,000 miles a year, so not left for prolonged periods. I do try to avoid potholes (though I am in Norfolk too). Guess I'll try genuine Fiat mounts next time - N/S has failed again - it virtually seized 3 months back, and is now knocking well...

Ian

 

[koalar]

wheel arch liner present undamaged ?
driven through any floods ?

 

[varesecrazy]

Lubricating the new bearings before assembly should help enormously

They are supplied lightly oiled.. to save rusting in the packet

Grande Punto suffer this far worse than pandas.. so there are several GUIDES

my panda wasnt too bad.. I made its GUIDE when the dampers wore out

 

[petelobus]

Thanks all. Does the Panda have wheel arch liners, as mine doesn't, and never has had in my ownership?
I now think that the sequence of events was that the first set of mounts, which were probably original, failed the MoT unjustifiably. Subsequent mounts have been cheap pattern ones with insufficient lubrication. When I get round to getting this one changed I'll try a genuine one and grease it thoroughly.
Thanks
Ian

 

[irc]

Yes, it should have wheel arch liners.

 

[koalar]

Thanks all. Does the Panda have wheel arch liners, as mine doesn't, and never has had in my ownership?
I now think that the sequence of events was that the first set of mounts, which were probably original, failed the MoT unjustifiably. Subsequent mounts have been cheap pattern ones with insufficient lubrication. When I get round to getting this one changed I'll try a genuine one and grease it thoroughly.
Thanks
Ian

oh my god. None at all ?


I am surprised you haven't had problems with the headlights yet. Track prepared cars often have mud oozing around the headlights


I have a suspicion this might be the main cause. Certainly they will help prevent stone chips and save rot setting in

 

[Wazzzer]

I have a knocking coming from the front of my 100HP which I have been investigating for the last week. I have replaced the arms (which were shot anyway) bu tthe knocking persists.

I have Bilstein suspension fitted which I assume will make the bushes wear faster but after a bit of research last night it seems there are different part numbers for the different models. Having removed standard arms and not the specific 100HP arms I am dubious as to whether the correct top mounts were fitted before I bought the car. I'm guessing they may have a different shore rating?


Maybe this could be the issue with yours?

 

[koalar]

I have a knocking coming from the front of my 100HP which I have been investigating for the last week. I have replaced the arms (which were shot anyway) bu tthe knocking persists.

I have Bilstein suspension fitted which I assume will make the bushes wear faster but after a bit of research last night it seems there are different part numbers for the different models. Having removed standard arms and not the specific 100HP arms I am dubious as to whether the correct top mounts were fitted before I bought the car. I'm guessing they may have a different shore rating?


Maybe this could be the issue with yours?

original arms can last over 10 years 100K miles none 100hp
replacement have been known to be shot in a year in the same vehicle

incorrect fitment, driving style, Road conditions, contamination, or poor quality rubber will lead to a short life.


original 100hp arms have also been known to be worn out in 12 months


Also because an advert says its OEM or manufactured by M/M doesn't mean thats what you are getting. Paying more also does not gaurentee it any better.


its better to buy from a reputable supply, fit yourself correctly and fix oil leaks that could run down onto the rubber.

 

[Wazzzer]

The arms I have just fitted were genuine Magneti items so I guess I'll see how long they last.

I've ordered top mounts from SKF which tally up with the correct part number for the 100HP (which are the same as the Abarth 595 if anyone ever needs to know)

 

[DaveMcT]

Check the part numbers but I believe they all use the same top mounts. They are not symmetrical, so check they are fitted correctly.

I have just bought a pair of Monroe mounts for £20 each. The thrust bearings pop out easily and can be separated just take care to not lose the contents (!). They are NOT rolling bearings so packing them full with grease is a good idea. I use CV joint moly grease. Make sure any excess grease is cleaned off the rubber.

 

[irc]

100hp definitely uses different part number for top mounts.
Mine had knackered standard ones on when I got it (invoice had standard part number), trashed in 10 months.
Proper ones still OK 18 months on.
No idea what the difference is though.

 

[DaveMcT]

Fair comment. I just looked on Shop-4-Parts ---

100HP top mounts OEM number 51856857 (SKF brand £30 each).

1.1, 1.2 and JTD top mounts OEM number 46746546 / 51807101 (Original Birth £15 each).

4x4 version OEM number 51856856 (available as OEM only at £50 each).

The latter has a suspiciously similar number to the 100HP but hey it's not the same.

 

[Wazzzer]

Fair comment. I just looked on Shop-4-Parts ---

100HP top mounts OEM number 51856857 (SKF brand £30 each).

1.1, 1.2 and JTD top mounts OEM number 46746546 / 51807101 (Original Birth £15 each).

4x4 version OEM number 51856856 (available as OEM only at £50 each).

The latter has a suspiciously similar number to the 100HP but hey it's not the same.

I just bought a pair of the SKF top mounts for £32 delivered

Their own part number is VKDA 35221 T

4x4 versions are available from SKF, you just have to use their part number finder with the OEM number then search for that on ebay, seems to weed out all the "universal" bushes

https://vehicleaftermarket.skf.com/uk/en/products/VKDC35237T

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194490374101?epid=21042727426&hash=item2d488797d5:g:qHEAAOSwcrlhQy3p

 

[Yolanda]

With the car jacked up and on stands I'm getting up and down movement at the top of the struts when felt from underneath. Does this mean my top mounts need changing.