Technical Timing issue

[Scottieo321]

Hi guys,

I've got a very big issue with a 1.2 06 grande Punto timing.

Now before anyone asks I've been through all the guides on here and looked at quite a few threads to find out my issue but I'm all out of ideas.

Changed the timing belt and pulley on Sunday gone (yes a whole week to do this). The cam and crank both have timing marks on them but the cam doesn't have one on the engine to put it to which isn't a big problem as I have the timing tools, so I put both to TDC but it's a struggle at points to manually turn the engine over (still turns but sort of has points where gets a little tough but still turns with not too much pressure on).

Now that aside get through the whole process everything remaining in time put all back together and it won't start, it tries but will not go at all. So I thought ok maybe it's actually 180 out from the last person (bearing in mind this has been messed on with before me) so tried and same results. Now if I put either crank or cam just past TDC then it turns over perfectly fine by hand but again won't start (obviously) also might I add no matter what I've got oil sorted of spitting out of the few holes dotted round which I'm guessing is just a build up of pressure turning it over (all sparks are removed and in good condition only few months old).

I know there's a few different engines for this one but just wondering if anyone has ran into this issue before and if they were able to rectify it and get the car running again. This has had my head bashed in for days and no matter what I seem to do it will not start (well it did once and had smoke coming out exhaust then misfired and cut out ) .

Please any help is appreciated

Thank you.

 

[bugsymike]

If you give me the correct engine series number for your engine (usually on the chassis Vin plate , not the vin number) I can send you the timing details for that model. Assuming what you have done hasn't damaged the engine.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi guys,

I've got a very big issue with a 1.2 06 grande Punto timing.

Now before anyone asks I've been through all the guides on here and looked at quite a few threads to find out my issue but I'm all out of ideas.

Changed the timing belt and pulley on Sunday gone (yes a whole week to do this). The cam and crank both have timing marks on them but the cam doesn't have one on the engine to put it to which isn't a big problem as I have the timing tools, so I put both to TDC but it's a struggle at points to manually turn the engine over (still turns but sort of has points where gets a little tough but still turns with not too much pressure on).

Now that aside get through the whole process everything remaining in time put all back together and it won't start, it tries but will not go at all. So I thought ok maybe it's actually 180 out from the last person (bearing in mind this has been messed on with before me) so tried and same results. Now if I put either crank or cam just past TDC then it turns over perfectly fine by hand but again won't start (obviously) also might I add no matter what I've got oil sorted of spitting out of the few holes dotted round which I'm guessing is just a build up of pressure turning it over (all sparks are removed and in good condition only few months old).

I know there's a few different engines for this one but just wondering if anyone has ran into this issue before and if they were able to rectify it and get the car running again. This has had my head bashed in for days and no matter what I seem to do it will not start (well it did once and had smoke coming out exhaust then misfired and cut out ) .

Please any help is appreciated

Thank you.

Did you replace the bottom pulley back on with the tiny pin in the correct orientation?

That was a favourite..

 

[Scottieo321]

If you give me the correct engine series number for your engine (usually on the chassis Vin plate , not the vin number) I can send you the timing details for that model. Assuming what you have done hasn't damaged the engine.

Hi bugsymike,

Engine code is the 199A4.000.

I'm hoping to god it hasn't damaged the engine, the timings slipped out of place at a point (my fault forgetting to put timing tools in place head was up my back end at that point).

All the pistons still look like they did no scores ect but can only see so much with a tiktok camera .

Thank you

 

[varesecrazy]

Did you replace the bottom pulley back on with the tiny pin in the correct orientation?

That was a favourite..

Image

 

[Scottieo321]

Did you replace the bottom pulley back on with the tiny pin in the correct orientation?

That was a favourite..

Yeah pin was near the bottom end with the notch being on the step point, when I first got it I was like which way round do I put this tool then seen the dimple and used my head.

 

[bugsymike]

Here is technical timing spec.
If with all fixings tight and you only turned engine gently by hand then should be OK , but if timing wrong and you turn the starter then you will damage the engine.

 

[Scottieo321]

Here is technical timing spec.
If with all fixings tight and you only turned engine gently by hand then should be OK , but if timing wrong and you turn the starter then you will damage the engine.

This is exactly what I have done, but when I first put the crank to TDC with belt on the cam was way off I'm talking -60/-90° off.

I read a few guides that say with the belt off you can adjust the cam to make it TDC but when that's done it stops before TDC and they said move the crank forward to allow it to go in and then move crank forward round so that's TDC but again the crank then stops before TDC and won't move any further.

To my understanding this engine is meant to be a non intrusive engine correct? So this shouldn't happen but it is.

My guessing is the engine is done and perhaps the last bit of damage to kill it has been done by myself along with everything previous person had done.

Sad to say it's going to need a new one.

 

[AnthonyH]

How many miles are on the engine? They're tough as nails, so as long as you're south of 150,000 miles i don't think the engine is dead.

I have one of these engines and was under the impression it was non-interference, so either the manual linked is wrong or the engine is available as interference and non-interference? Maybe i'm getting mixed up with VVT?

 

[Scottieo321]

How many miles are on the engine? They're tough as nails, so as long as you're south of 150,000 miles i don't think the engine is dead.

I have one of these engines and was under the impression it was non-interference, so either the manual linked is wrong or the engine is available as interference and non-interference? Maybe i'm getting mixed up with VVT?

View attachment 466588

Surprisingly it's under 100k, the little AI overview even says the 8 valve is a non interference engine so I'm at a complete stump as to why I'm having these issues.

Guna give it a few days break come back at it with a fresh head along with any and all advice I get from people on here, since most will have had puntos forever and came across all sorts of issues and hopefully something in my area too lol.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Unbelievable, that anyone still has a timing problem in such simple-stupid engine family (FIRE 8V)!
No enough skills is the main problem, probably. Then, lack of preparation, "home work" not done properly.

Study this Guide (and Discussion): https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/1-2-8v-evo-2-engine-cam-belt-replacement.732/
Then this (Punto_2, but same engine): https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/valve-stem-seals-replacement.514437/
Then 1,4 8V case-study: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/engine-timing-setup-1-4-8v-vvt.426347/
eLearn instructions: https://aftersales.fiat.com/elearnsections/main.aspx?nodeID=199000455&languageID=2&markID=1&modelID=199000000&valID=199000000&prodID=199000000&modelName=Fiat - 199 - Grande Punto&langDesc=English&sectionName=Procedure&validityName=1.2 8v&isExaminer=
Add YouTube videos on top of that. Will be enough to handle timing belt job (especially in 1,2 8V, without VVT).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't ask "AI" anything. It's dumb as f*ck. It's still a PROGRAM. It doesn't "think" at all. Random question (valve clearance).

With little feedback (it's NOT 0,2 mm) it can find different answer (but it still cannot comprehend if it's right or wrong and why)...

Interference is a non-issue. I mean, you should take care of the engine, so belt never skips or rips apart. That's the right approach, philosophy.

 

[GettinBetter]

.... Don't ask "AI" anything. It's dumb as f*ck. It's still a PROGRAM. It doesn't "think" at all. Random question (valve clearance)......

Ah YESSS, too true, Well done sir, I doff my hat to you , Not many people realise that.
It's absolute junk, and a glorified Siri/Alex, and don't know Sh*t+ that you couldn't find yourself (if google would let you).

Brilliant post BTW, Not only did you rip the OP, a new one, but added tons of help.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

I'm not "ripping apart" anyone, that's not the point.
If you plan such job, prepare yourself BEFORE, not during (or after) the job when (basic) problem occurs.
That's the message, technical facts (but most will focus on "the delivery" instead).
These are great engines to train, experiment. Perfect hobby level units. Most repairs can be done in 1-3 days (weekend).
Learning = mistakes. But most of them can be avoided in 2025 (if you pay attention, do the reconnaissance).

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi guys,

I've got a very big issue with a 1.2 06 grande Punto timing.

Now before anyone asks I've been through all the guides on here and looked at quite a few threads to find out my issue but I'm all out of ideas.

Changed the timing belt and pulley on Sunday gone (yes a whole week to do this). The cam and crank both have timing marks on them but the cam doesn't have one on the engine to put it to which isn't a big problem as I have the timing tools, so I put both to TDC but it's a struggle at points to manually turn the engine over (still turns but sort of has points where gets a little tough but still turns with not too much pressure on).

Now that aside get through the whole process everything remaining in time put all back together and it won't start, it tries but will not go at all. So I thought ok maybe it's actually 180 out from the last person (bearing in mind this has been messed on with before me) so tried and same results. Now if I put either crank or cam just past TDC then it turns over perfectly fine by hand but again won't start (obviously) also might I add no matter what I've got oil sorted of spitting out of the few holes dotted round which I'm guessing is just a build up of pressure turning it over (all sparks are removed and in good condition only few months old).

I know there's a few different engines for this one but just wondering if anyone has ran into this issue before and if they were able to rectify it and get the car running again. This has had my head bashed in for days and no matter what I seem to do it will not start (well it did once and had smoke coming out exhaust then misfired and cut out ) .

Please any help is appreciated

Thank you.

My first comment is that you need to read and understand Andy Monty's guide here: https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/1-2-8v-evo-2-engine-cam-belt-replacement.732/ It has to be the definitive guide to doing this job.

You keep talking about "putting it to TDC" and "turning the engine but it's hard to do so". Have you taken the spark plugs out? In my opinion one of the first things to do as it makes the engine so much easier to turn but, and more importantly, lets you feel if a piston is contacting a valve head with much greater sensitivity. With plugs out the crankshaft should be really easy to turn so easy to feel if a valve and piston are getting "friendly". You say you've got the timing tool kit (see the one pictured in Andy's guide - does your's look like this? There are several advertised on the likes of ebay, some won't do the job) Talking about putting it to TDC is almost meaningless as the engine is timed using the locking tools. whether this puts a piston to TDC is of no interest. I may be wrong, but I think the crank locking tool sets all piston half way up/down their stroke? Not that it matters.

Hi bugsymike,

Engine code is the 199A4.000.

I'm hoping to god it hasn't damaged the engine, the timings slipped out of place at a point (my fault forgetting to put timing tools in place head was up my back end at that point).

All the pistons still look like they did no scores ect but can only see so much with a tiktok camera .

Thank you

Here is technical timing spec.
If with all fixings tight and you only turned engine gently by hand then should be OK , but if timing wrong and you turn the starter then you will damage the engine.

I'm much happier with Panda engines but my boy had a Punto and I did a can belt on it without any problems so I think the 199A4.000 had a solid (non VVT) cam pulley. My boy's had the VVT pulley and was, I'm pretty sure (we don't have the car any more) the 169A4000. Mike, your shot of the manual shows the VVT top pulley so I think is not quite right for this early '06 plate car which should be non VVT? However, apart from that top pulley, the procedure to time both engines is the same so your book should be useable with both.

This is exactly what I have done, but when I first put the crank to TDC with belt on the cam was way off I'm talking -60/-90° off.

So are you saying here that when you came to work on it, before you started dismantling anything the cam was 60 to 90 degrees out? So the cam locking tool would not fit in the slots on the end of the cam? If so and the engine was turned over on the starter then some damage may have been done to the valves. HOWEVER, maybe not as many, myself included, are of the opinion that the NON VVT 8 valve engines are, pretty much, all non interference - you may have been "lucky".

I read a few guides that say with the belt off you can adjust the cam to make it TDC but when that's done it stops before TDC and they said move the crank forward to allow it to go in and then move crank forward round so that's TDC but again the crank then stops before TDC and won't move any further.

I think what's being talked about here is that if you try to fit a new belt with both crank and cam locked with the tools, then it's impossible to get the belt correctly meshed unless you slacken the cam pulley retaining bolt - which is extremely tight. So, if you don't want to slacken the cam pulley retaining bolt, you have to turn the crankshaft slightly anticlockwise until the next tooth on the belt drops into mesh with the pulley. You'll find it all lines up again once the tensioner is tightened.

To my understanding this engine is meant to be a non intrusive engine correct? So this shouldn't happen but it is.

As I mentioned above I think it should be non interference - but not everyone agrees.

My guessing is the engine is done and perhaps the last bit of damage to kill it has been done by myself along with everything previous person had done.

Sad to say it's going to need a new one.

Let me ask. So, you've got a good belt, tensioning pulley, water pump etc and a set of the correct timing tools - minimum required is the cam pulley and crankshaft locking tools. (crank one looks a bit like a dumbbell camshaft one is a bar with an angled bar which slots into the back end of the cam)?

If so then you need to do a full, manufacturer recommended procedure to time the engine using the locking tools and slackening the cam pulley retaining bolt. I say this because you say someone has been mucking about with this before you so you really can't be sure they haven't done something wrong - like tightening the cam pulley bolt with the pulley mistimed to the shaft. If you've got all the parts and tools you say you have then this will cost you nothing and will establish for sure whether the timing is your problem.

When following Andy's guide, as these engines have "free running" ie. non keyed, camshafts and pulleys you'll need to look at the supplements to his guide on other pages which he tells you about in his original guide. (see the link I posted above)

Edit. By the way, if you do slacken the cam pulley retaining bolt as per the recommended procedure, then keep an eye on the Check engine light when it's first taken for a decent drive (ie, not just round the block) If the light illuminates, as they often do when this procedure is carried out, then, although it will have stored a code for a miss fire, you'll find what it actually needs is a Phonic Wheel Relearn for which a scanner like the dealer tool or Multiecuscan or similar will be needed to reset. A generic scanner almost certainly won't do it. The Phonic Wheel Relearn allows the engine management to learn the new relationship between the cam and crankshaft sensor outputs/phasing with the new belt fitted. If the light doesn't show after maybe a week of running then it's probably happy and doesn't need doing as the new settings are so similar to the old ones as makes no difference - sometimes you're lucky and sometimes you ain't!

 

[Scottieo321]

My first comment is that you need to read and understand Andy Monty's guide here: https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/1-2-8v-evo-2-engine-cam-belt-replacement.732/ It has to be the definitive guide to doing this job.

You keep talking about "putting it to TDC" and "turning the engine but it's hard to do so". Have you taken the spark plugs out? In my opinion one of the first things to do as it makes the engine so much easier to turn but, and more importantly, lets you feel if a piston is contacting a valve head with much greater sensitivity. With plugs out the crankshaft should be really easy to turn so easy to feel if a valve and piston are getting "friendly". You say you've got the timing tool kit (see the one pictured in Andy's guide - does your's look like this? There are several advertised on the likes of ebay, some won't do the job) Talking about putting it to TDC is almost meaningless as the engine is timed using the locking tools. whether this puts a piston to TDC is of no interest. I may be wrong, but I think the crank locking tool sets all piston half way up/down their stroke? Not that it matters.



I'm much happier with Panda engines but my boy had a Punto and I did a can belt on it without any problems so I think the 199A4.000 had a solid (non VVT) cam pulley. My boy's had the VVT pulley and was, I'm pretty sure (we don't have the car any more) the 169A4000. Mike, your shot of the manual shows the VVT top pulley so I think is not quite right for this early '06 plate car which should be non VVT? However, apart from that top pulley, the procedure to time both engines is the same so your book should be useable with both.


So are you saying here that when you came to work on it, before you started dismantling anything the cam was 60 to 90 degrees out? So the cam locking tool would not fit in the slots on the end of the cam? If so and the engine was turned over on the starter then some damage may have been done to the valves. HOWEVER, maybe not as many, myself included, are of the opinion that the NON VVT 8 valve engines are, pretty much, all non interference - you may have been "lucky".

I think what's being talked about here is that if you try to fit a new belt with both crank and cam locked with the tools, then it's impossible to get the belt correctly meshed unless you slacken the cam pulley retaining bolt - which is extremely tight. So, if you don't want to slacken the cam pulley retaining bolt, you have to turn the crankshaft slightly anticlockwise until the next tooth on the belt drops into mesh with the pulley. You'll find it all lines up again once the tensioner is tightened.

As I mentioned above I think it should be non interference - but not everyone agrees.

Let me ask. So, you've got a good belt, tensioning pulley, water pump etc and a set of the correct timing tools - minimum required is the cam pulley and crankshaft locking tools. (crank one looks a bit like a dumbbell camshaft one is a bar with an angled bar which slots into the back end of the cam)?

If so then you need to do a full, manufacturer recommended procedure to time the engine using the locking tools and slackening the cam pulley retaining bolt. I say this because you say someone has been mucking about with this before you so you really can't be sure they haven't done something wrong - like tightening the cam pulley bolt with the pulley mistimed to the shaft. If you've got all the parts and tools you say you have then this will cost you nothing and will establish for sure whether the timing is your problem.

When following Andy's guide, as these engines have "free running" ie. non keyed, camshafts and pulleys you'll need to look at the supplements to his guide on other pages which he tells you about in his original guide. (see the link I posted above)

Edit. By the way, if you do slacken the cam pulley retaining bolt as per the recommended procedure, then keep an eye on the Check engine light when it's first taken for a decent drive (ie, not just round the block) If the light illuminates, as they often do when this procedure is carried out, then, although it will have stored a code for a miss fire, you'll find what it actually needs is a Phonic Wheel Relearn for which a scanner like the dealer tool or Multiecuscan or similar will be needed to reset. A generic scanner almost certainly won't do it. The Phonic Wheel Relearn allows the engine management to learn the new relationship between the cam and crankshaft sensor outputs/phasing with the new belt fitted. If the light doesn't show after maybe a week of running then it's probably happy and doesn't need doing as the new settings are so similar to the old ones as makes no difference - sometimes you're lucky and sometimes you ain't!

I'm guna try to be brief answering lol.

Firstly that's the guide along with other links ect that on his guide that I followed to a T, literally pinned all over the forum so must be a good one lol.

The timing tools I got is the same he uses just 1 for crank and 1 for cam as well as the little fork for the pulley.

Spark plugs are all taken out it's the first thing I do to allow ease of movement.

The crank tool sets where 1/4 are top if I go by the little indented line on the crank pulley dimple being sorted of southeast.

Yeah it's a non vvt but most guides that's skippable as only 1 extra step that's not needed.

Yeah when I came to start turned engine over with belt on crank tool locked in after but cam tool couldn't fit the cam needed to turn nearly a 1/4 before the cam tool could go in (cam being correct way not 180 out).

When it was turned without belt on it hits a spot where it will no longer move and still not able to put tool in? You have to move the crank in order to get the cam to have the tool in.

Retaining bolt is fine I've done that loosened along with the cam locking tool and a spanner on the shaft all fine next to no movement but not enough to put it out.

Do you have a link or something to manufacture timing? I've got Haynes manual and the guides on this forum but I'm guessing more steps are needed for that?

When we got the car it had a bent valve pretty much it was intake, oil coming out of everywhere around the gasket, ticking sound inside the engine (still there after valve work) and most things botched it was like a kid had it and did what they wanted it was a wreck to say the least, but I'm trying to bring it back to good old Punto fashion piece by piece.

Think I covered everything .

 

[Scottieo321]

I'm not "ripping apart" anyone, that's not the point.
If you plan such job, prepare yourself BEFORE, not during (or after) the job when (basic) problem occurs.
That's the message, technical facts (but most will focus on "the delivery" instead).
These are great engines to train, experiment. Perfect hobby level units. Most repairs can be done in 1-3 days (weekend).
Learning = mistakes. But most of them can be avoided in 2025 (if you pay attention, do the reconnaissance).

It did feel like ripping me apart but I know where you're coming from, I did all the theory work before starting so wasn't like I watch a YouTube vid then was like I'm an expert I followed guides to a T and apart from a simple mistake where I didn't put in the cam tool and turned the engine I stuck to it all and kept stopping to check then carried on to next bit.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Unbelievable, that anyone still has a timing problem in such simple-stupid engine family (FIRE 8V)!
No enough skills is the main problem, probably. Then, lack of preparation, "home work" not done properly.

I'm not trying to be "clever" or "contentious" but many on here are most certainly not professionals and don't have the advantage of professional training. so I'm happy to cut then a lot of "slack" and try to help where I can. I agree that, at first glance, the Fire engine has a pretty simple cam belt assembly. This was particularly true of it in it's first version where both the cam pulley and crankshaft pulley were marked so you could line them up with corresponding marks on the engine casings. As we know, this all got more complicated when the non keyed cam pulleys were introduced and then "frightened" people even more when the VVT cam pulley appeared. In fact the VVT pulley is no more difficult to do than the solid unkeyed pulley which preceded it, but you do need the locking tools to be sure you've done it right and follow the instructions relating to cam pulley positioning VERY CAREFULY.

Don't ask "AI" anything. It's dumb as f*ck. It's still a PROGRAM. It doesn't "think" at all. Random question (valve clearance).

I would always be very careful and sceptical about any data I got from a non approved/proven source - I could go "off on one" about all the "tech silly ness" that's abroad in the world today. But this is about cam timing here so I'll button it.

Interference is a non-issue. I mean, you should take care of the engine, so belt never skips or rips apart. That's the right approach, philosophy.

I get what you're saying here - prevention is always better than cure eh? However, on most modern engines "interference" is very much an issue, more so than ever and with some engines having none - not one - of their main pulleys keyed the possibility of us amateurs "getting it wrong" is more of an issue than ever.

 

[Scottieo321]

I'm not trying to be "clever" or "contentious" but many on here are most certainly not professionals and don't have the advantage of professional training. so I'm happy to cut then a lot of "slack" and try to help where I can. I agree that, at first glance, the Fire engine has a pretty simple cam belt assembly. This was particularly true of it in it's first version where both the cam pulley and crankshaft pulley were marked so you could line them up with corresponding marks on the engine casings. As we know, this all got more complicated when the non keyed cam pulleys were introduced and then "frightened" people even more when the VVT cam pulley appeared. In fact the VVT pulley is no more difficult to do than the solid unkeyed pulley which preceded it, but you do need the locking tools to be sure you've done it right and follow the instructions relating to cam pulley positioning VERY CAREFULY.

I would always be very careful and sceptical about any data I got from a non approved/proven source - I could go "off on one" about all the "tech silly ness" that's abroad in the world today. But this is about cam timing here so I'll button it.

I get what you're saying here - prevention is always better than cure eh? However, on most modern engines "interference" is very much an issue, more so than ever and with some engines having none - not one - of their main pulleys keyed the possibility of us amateurs "getting it wrong" is more of an issue than ever.

I'm all up for someone going you thicko should have done x,y,z it's all about the learning at the end of the day and I'm all for learning in my 30's.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I'm guna try to be brief answering lol.

Firstly that's the guide along with other links ect that on his guide that I followed to a T, literally pinned all over the forum so must be a good one lol.

The timing tools I got is the same he uses just 1 for crank and 1 for cam as well as the little fork for the pulley.

Spark plugs are all taken out it's the first thing I do to allow ease of movement.

The crank tool sets where 1/4 are top if I go by the little indented line on the crank pulley dimple being sorted of southeast.

Yeah it's a non vvt but most guides that's skippable as only 1 extra step that's not needed.

Yeah when I came to start turned engine over with belt on crank tool locked in after but cam tool couldn't fit the cam needed to turn nearly a 1/4 before the cam tool could go in (cam being correct way not 180 out).

When it was turned without belt on it hits a spot where it will no longer move and still not able to put tool in? You have to move the crank in order to get the cam to have the tool in.

Retaining bolt is fine I've done that loosened along with the cam locking tool and a spanner on the shaft all fine next to no movement but not enough to put it out.

Do you have a link or something to manufacture timing? I've got Haynes manual and the guides on this forum but I'm guessing more steps are needed for that?

When we got the car it had a bent valve pretty much it was intake, oil coming out of everywhere around the gasket, ticking sound inside the engine (still there after valve work) and most things botched it was like a kid had it and did what they wanted it was a wreck to say the least, but I'm trying to bring it back to good old Punto fashion piece by piece.

Think I covered everything .

Thanks, that's good to know the plugs are out and that it's a non VVT - still going to have the unkeyed cam pulley though unless I'm very mistaken (which I don't think I am)

I'm finding it just a little difficult to understand some of your description of what exactly you've been doing but you speak of the cam being a quarter turn out with the crankshaft locked up (with the dumbbell tool I guess?) If so the crank and cam are obviously not timed correctly. So, what I would try first would be, with the timing belt removed, set the pistons all half way up/down their strokes. - so all well clear of the cylinder head/valves. feeling for No 1 and No 2 with a screwdriver in their plug holes will confirm this. Then rotate the cam shaft until the cam locking tool can be inserted into the slot on the back end of the cam (you have got the cam cover off haven't you?) Please read the post below at this point as the crankshaft needs to be realigned at this point. This will put both crank shaft and cam shaft "in time" with each other. Of course the valves will move as the cam is rotated but no harm can come to them as the pistons are well down the bores. Now fit the cam belt with the "drive side" (so cam pulley, round the water pump to the crankshaft pulley) as tight as possible. You may actually be one tooth out if you don't remove the crank locking tool and turn the the crankshaft about half a tooth anticlockwise until the tooth drops in. However, even if you're one tooth out you should now have an engine which can be turned by hand quite easily and with minimum resistance. If you put the plugs back in it should run although, if it's one tooth out it won't run particularly well. All the above presuming the main cam retaining bolt hasn't been slackened. If it has then all bets are off as you'll need to do the full timing procedure to get the cam pulley back in time with the crank.

Reading on a bit further it does sound like some quite serious damage was done by the previous owner so there may be other issues we can't possibly know about. Good luck

 

[AnthonyH]

Thanks, that's good to know the plugs are out and that it's a non VVT - still going to have the unkeyed cam pulley though unless I'm very mistaken (which I don't think I am)

I'm finding it just a little difficult to understand some of your description of what exactly you've been doing but you speak of the cam being a quarter turn out with the crankshaft locked up (with the dumbbell tool I guess?) If so the crank and cam are obviously not timed correctly. So, what I would try first would be, with the timing belt removed, set the pistons all half way up/down their strokes. - so all well clear of the cylinder head/valves. feeling for No 1 and No 2 with a screwdriver in their plug holes will confirm this. Then rotate the cam shaft until the cam locking tool can be inserted into the slot on the back end of the cam (you have got the cam cover off haven't you?) this will put both crank shaft and cam shaft "in time" with each other. Of course the valves will move as the cam is rotated but no harm can come to them as the pistons are well down the bores. Now fit the cam belt with the "drive side" (so cam pulley, round the water pump to the crankshaft pulley) as tight as possible. You may actually be one tooth out if you don't remove the crank locking tool and turn the the crankshaft about half a tooth anticlockwise until the tooth drops in. However, even if you're one tooth out you should now have an engine which can be turned by hand quite easily and with minimum resistance. If you put the plugs back in it should run although, if it's one tooth out it won't run particularly well. All the above presuming the main cam retaining bolt hasn't been slackened. If it has then all bets are off as you'll need to do the full timing procedure to get the cam pulley back in time with the crank.

Reading on a bit further it does sound like some quite serious damage was done by the previous owner so there may be other issues we can't possibly know about. Good luck

I too find it hard to follow what the OP has done so far. Some video of procedures would be handy.