Technical Strut top nuts

[torniojaws]

Just to revisit the vague steering issue. I just undid the strut plate discs and checked why the struts still seem loose even after re-tightening them.

Could someone confirm that the bigger/chunkier nut should be used to hold the strut top mount in place against the spring, and the smaller/less tall nut should be used on the plate disc that tightens the strut assembly to the car structure?

That is also the advise I got from Sachs when I asked about it back in November.

But to me, it looks like having the bigger nut below the smaller nut will not let the strut to sit firmly against the car body. The plate disc will still move quite freely up and down, and slightly sideways.

Attached is a picture where the smaller nut (came with the strut) is undone, and the bigger nut (55702313, bought separately) is still attached to the strut. To me, that doesn't look correct, despite the advise from Sachs.

 

[torniojaws]

Here's the old strut, but it's hard to tell much from this unfortunately only shot I have of it.

I do count 13 threads visible in the old one, instead of 12 now, but it could be just the angle.

 

[torniojaws]

Well, despite what Sachs said, I'm fairly sure they either said it in a strange way or accidentally the wrong way.

I bought new nuts using the OE numbers. The lower nut 55702312 (on the strut) is clearly the less tall one, and the taller nut 55702313 (engine bay) is noticeably taller.

I'm sure the gap is due to the taller nut blocking the spring plate from going down all the way like it is supposed to. Should have noticed it when assembling, but I went with Sachs' response since it's their strut

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Ok. The shorter nut without the nyloc insert is the one that goes on first and holds the top mount and spring. Then, after you've fitted the strut back into the wing and placed the cupped retaining washer over the damper rod it's the taller nyloc nut which then completes the job by securing the cupped washer (which stops the strut from dropping out of the inner wing when the car is jacked up.

This video might be helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMP8mRIVccQ&t=551s
If you look at around 3 minutes into it you'll get a good view of the nyloc nut and cupped washer. Then at around 8 to 9 minutes in you can see the other nut.

Hope that helps?

I have to say I'm quite deeply disturbed by your first picture which shows the top of the strut in place. From the marks in the paint on the turret around the cupped washer it looks to me that the ball bearings - of the bearing assembly above it in the picture - have been running against the turret itself? This bearing assembly should be underneath the rubber top mounting! If installed correctly it would not be visible in this picture! I think you probably need to drop the strut out again and compare how your's is assembled with this video?

Here's an advert for the mounts themselves which may help:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Gra...BBEV2bDemotion&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I have to say I'm quite deeply disturbed by your first picture which shows the top of the strut in place. From the marks in the paint on the turret around the cupped washer it looks to me that the ball bearings - of the bearing assembly above it in the picture - have been running against the turret itself?

OOPs - Major brain malfunction - sorry! what I thought was a ball race in your first picture is actually a rubber ring round the outside of the cupped washer, isn't it? The bits I thought were ball bearings are actually just rubber "pimples" - right? So looks like your assembly is correct. Many apologies if I've caused distress but I first viewed this on a small tablet and I'm now looking at it on my 15" laptop with much better resolution. The corresponding rubber ring on my Panda doesn't have the "pimples"!

 

[chris3234]

OOPs - Major brain malfunction - sorry! what I thought was a ball race in your first picture is actually a rubber ring round the outside of the cupped washer, isn't it? The bits I thought were ball bearings are actually just rubber "pimples" - right? So looks like your assembly is correct. Many apologies if I've caused distress but I first viewed this on a small tablet and I'm now looking at it on my 15" laptop with much better resolution. The corresponding rubber ring on my Panda doesn't have the "pimples"!

They do look rather like ball bearings that was my original thought as well

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks chris, that makes me feel a little less foolish.

 

[torniojaws]

Yeah, the structure on the GP is like below. The dotted marks are from the bottom of the spring plate (number 9 in the picture), which has some odd "pimples" (see the second picture)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Built on obsolescence? The "pimples" rub the paint away so the rust can get stuck into the metal of the inner wing thus ensuring the car doesn't last too long? (joking of course)

 

[torniojaws]

Built on obsolescence? The "pimples" rub the paint away so the rust can get stuck into the metal of the inner wing thus ensuring the car doesn't last too long? (joking of course)

Well, to be fair, the worn out part in the first post image is already more than 12 years old, and no rust yet! And Finland isn't exactly the most steel-friendly country to drive in

Oh, actually kudos to Fiat, the car doesn't really have rust at all.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well, to be fair, the worn out part in the first post image is already more than 12 years old, and no rust yet! And Finland isn't exactly the most steel-friendly country to drive in

Oh, actually kudos to Fiat, the car doesn't really have rust at all.

That's good to hear. I'm afraid Felicity, our 1992 Mk1 Panda "Parade" rusted horribly. Not just door bottoms but sills, floor, etc. However I am very impressed with Becky, our 2010 Panda Dynamic Eco which, apart from the expected rear axle really has no rust to speak of at all! It was quite a few years ago now that Fiat made a big publicity "fuss" about how they were "galvanizing" their vulnerable bits. Seems they've made good on it then?

PS do you chaps have a lot of salt on your roads in winter, like us, or do you all run around on studded tyres?

 

[torniojaws]

PS do you chaps have a lot of salt on your roads in winter, like us, or do you all run around on studded tyres?

I'd say about 85 - 90 % of cars have studded tires. Salt is used in some of the capital region highways and some areas around the country, but I'd say most of the roads are unsalted, which helps a lot.

 

[chris3234]

I'd say about 85 - 90 % of cars have studded tires. Salt is used in some of the capital region highways and some areas around the country, but I'd say most of the roads are unsalted, which helps a lot.

Pretty much all main roads and motorways are salted very often through the winter in the UK whenever temps are forecast to be 4c or lower


That mixed with all the rain we get makes a nasty salt spray

 

[torniojaws]

Alright, replaced both nuts now while doing the front disc brakes and pads. Now the strut looks far better. It won't budge at all at the top, and the spring plate is held very firmly against the car body with no gap.

Unfortunately can't test drive it yet, as Autodoc was kind enough to send me too big brake pads, even though it said it is compatible with the 2008 GP Hopefully the local shop has some in stock.

 

[torniojaws]

Had a test drive on the highway and around town. Seems to be fine now. Not 100 % perfect, but I think that's more on the steering rack, but still far better than before, especially at highway speeds (100 km/h-ish) and when braking/accelerating. Now it is fairly similar to my wife's Honda Jazz 2020, which also doesn't drive perfectly stable (wind etc).

 

[eeeno]

It could be a worn lower support arm bushing causing that or a tie rod end. After MOT you'll know if some part has failed. If the tire wear is normal too it's not yet severe.

Oh Autodoc kindly gave you superior quality Stark part which doesn't fit? You have to send them a mail saying that you will not accept any exchange to (somewhat questionable) Stark parts. Recently they've become very slow to ship, it takes a week for them to even send the parts and another to deliver and with Postnord it takes up to five days because they're not punctual. I was waiting for days and they kept telling me that the part is coming. Delivery time is about two weeks with them. Now I only buy from Trodo. They don't give you that bull**** and they only send the parts you selected.

 

[torniojaws]

It could be a worn lower support arm bushing causing that or a tie rod end. After MOT you'll know if some part has failed. If the tire wear is normal too it's not yet severe.

The inspection passed a few months ago. I have also replaced the entire lower control arms on both sides just 9 months ago, and the inner & outer tie rods are also brand new Moog ones that were installed 5 months ago + 4-wheel alignment. At this point, pretty much the entire front end is brand new The only old parts left are the steering knuckles, wheel bearings and the CV joints. Oh and the steering rack. Everything else is less than 1 year old.

Oh Autodoc kindly gave you superior quality Stark part which doesn't fit?

Well, that also did happen in the past. A brand-name product was magically replaced with Stark after placing the order But this time it was the correct product as ordered. It was just that the site said it will fit the car, but in reality it was too big (149 mm width, while the GP uses 123 mm brake pads), and I didn't notice the size difference.

In the old case, I was aware of Autodoc's borderline illegal behaviour, so I checked my order after placing it and saw what they did. Sent them an email and at least they did change it to have the correct brand.

Now I only buy from Trodo. They don't give you that bull**** and they only send the parts you selected.

An alternative to Autodoc is very welcome! Gotta check them out. I'm only using Autodoc because Motonet rarely has parts available for the GP and Fixus has I swear double the price of everyone else for the same exact product. At least Autodoc has most of the things in stock.

 

[eeeno]

Does that car have high mileage?


Autodoc was still good some years ago, but now they've become very slow. I've been very pleased with Trodo for now.

Fiat ePer will tell the correct parts you need by VIN code.

 

[torniojaws]

Just under 140000 km.

For OE numbers, I've been using https://fiat.7zap.com/en/fpun/4c/199250201000-099/443/ which is also quite nice For torque specs, the Haynes manual for GP and this one: http://4cardata.info/elearn/199/2/199000000/199000000/199000002/199001082

 

[eeeno]

Whoa, did it really completely break that those parts needed to be changed? Usually those parts last much longer. Of course a project is always fun, even an unnecessary one. I'm learning out of that habit myself. I just wait to get failed MOT as those steering and suspension parts won't completely break down even on a Fiat.