"smart" motorways

[portland_bill]

There used to be a train from Penzance to Edinburgh, and return of course. We used it one year for a holiday. Had to pick it up at Bristol. This must have been summer 94 or 95, as they were the two years we had the 750 Panda.
Drove to Bristol in the Panda, left it at Dad's house. Short walk to Bristol station, booked seats, all the way to Edinburgh. Taxi to the hotel.
Spent the next day around Edinburgh.
Next day, hire car, Cinquecento 900, then over the next days, in stages to Inverness, John 'O Groats, (a few other places, don't remember right now) and back to Edinburgh.
Did 999 miles in the Cinq. Back on the train for home. All in a week.

 

[DaveMcT]

I just checked Trainline. Trains do go direct from Edinburgh to Exeter without changes. Open return cost was £217. The same train probably goes all the way to Penzance (I didn't check) and you may get better prices with advanced booking.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I rest my case. The Ibiza does a steady 60 mpg on the journey to Devon and we make it comfortably on one tankful each way so roughly £100 for the complete round trip.

 

[StevenRB45]

I rest my case. The Ibiza does a steady 60 mpg on the journey to Devon and we make it comfortably on one tankful each way so roughly £100 for the complete round trip.

This is where cruise control is a winner, just keep your eyes on the road and set it to the prevailing limit.

So much less stress in average speed camera roadworks/smart motorway situations.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

That's it Steven, my default procedure. - I'd absolutely hate not to have cruise, even use it in extended 20 and 30mph city driving.

 

[Didge3]

I commute to multiple places of work but 3 days a week I am roughly in the same area, a season ticket to that one destination (26 miles by road) is £370 a month! Adding the costs of my car, fuel, loan, insurance, maintenance comes out at £100 less a month! Why I would ever choose the train is beyond me, coaches on the other hand are much cheaper but then I'd have to sit in all the same traffic as the car.

 

[DaveMcT]

I used to get the train into Birmingham from the west side of Derby. Folding bike to stations at each end kept me fit. Costs were comparable with using the car, but it was a well used commuter route.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zDfdQlSBc6Q&

 

[PuntoHowTo]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zDfdQlSBc6Q&

Typical French car ?

 

[Troubles with 500c]

Has anyone seen the new Highways England advert on TV?

It must be the worst ad on TV at the moment, but more importantly I can’t believe this is their response to the findings in recent coroner’s cases. They could have used this money to improve the roads.

I do hope the CPS push forward with a corporate man slaughter case against them.

 

[portland_bill]

Not seen it on TV, but it is disappointing. It does not make it clear to use the refuges, that's just a brief moment in the middle of the whole silliness. It also confuses by suggesting the next junction early on.
I think it needs a calm clear voiceover stating what to do, where to go,and once stopped, what to do next. Some advice about being unable to reach a refuge would be useful too.

Created by 'advertising executives' with little driving knowledge, and signed off by Dept of Transport bigwigs overwhelmed by being involved in TV.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I suppose far to much money spent already on what they've done, so they'll be going to make it "work" whether it really does or not and don't worry folks everything's gonna be alright!

 

[DaveMcT]

I suppose far to much money spent already on what they've done, so they'll be going to make it "work" whether it really does or not and don't worry folks everything's gonna be alright!

This is exactly what's going on. We have a policy and we are going to make it work regardless. Covid testing and train-n-trace fall into the same category. They've built the machine so now they have to use it.

Check out the Yes Minister hospital episode. It's (excellent) comedy but closer to the truth than anyone wants to admit.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I suppose far to much money spent already on what they've done, so they'll be going to make it "work" whether it really does or not and don't worry folks everything's gonna be alright!

The idea of the smart motorways was to make them safer.

As I pointed out before one of the things they will do is reduce the speed limits when it’s really busy to allow more cars in the same area closer together and still maintaining a safe distance. Scrap them and how many lives could be lost by that one idiot who feels they are in a 70 limit and they are going to do 70 so screw everyone else, leading to a massive accident.

All the examples of problems with smart motorways relate to the loss of the hard shoulder but there are many more accidents that happen as a result of speed or people driving too close?

 

[chris3234]

The idea of the smart motorways was to make them safer.

As I pointed out before one of the things they will do is reduce the speed limits when it’s really busy to allow more cars in the same area closer together and still maintaining a safe distance. Scrap them and how many lives could be lost by that one idiot who feels they are in a 70 limit and they are going to do 70 so screw everyone else, leading to a massive accident.

All the examples of problems with smart motorways relate to the loss of the hard shoulder but there are many more accidents that happen as a result of speed or people driving too close?

Very true
If they didn't have the all lane running version's I'd most of would say they work very well and the emergency areas would be great if they were ther where in addition to the hard shoulder

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The "smart" motorway idea with lanes being monitored (and closed if necessary) and speed regulated according to prevailing traffic density and "refuge laybys" is an excellent idea - I'm all for it. But you can do all that and increase the safety factor by having a hard shoulder too. So, on existing roads that would be running lanes plus a hard shoulder and refuge laybys in addition to the hard shoulder.

It's not the addition of changing the hard shoulder into a running lane which makes these "smart" motorways safer, it's the camera technology and lane control it allows which gets the job done. So If you have all this but retain the hard shoulder and introduce refuge areas to the left of the hard shoulder I believe safety would be improved most dramatically. Of course then not so many vehicles per hour will pass any given point but I, for one, don't think it's worth sacrificing lives for this.

Scrap the "silly" HS2 and there would be plenty of money to do this?

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Very true
If they didn't have the all lane running version's I'd most of would say they work very well and the emergency areas would be great if they were ther where in addition to the hard shoulder

Why would you need a safety refuge in addition to the hard shoulder

But you can do all that and increase the safety factor by having a hard shoulder too. So, on existing roads that would be running lanes plus a hard shoulder and refuge laybys in addition to the hard shoulder.

That would defeat the object. The whole point of doing away with the hard shoulder is to gain an additional live line allowing more vehicles to flow along the same stretch of road at peak times when there are no holdups such as breakdowns etc.

If someone breaks down then said live lane is shut down and becomes the hard shoulder while that’s being dealt with.

It's not the addition of changing the hard shoulder into a running lane which makes these "smart" motorways safer, it's the camera technology and lane control it allows which gets the job done. So If you have all this but retain the hard shoulder and introduce refuge areas to the left of the hard shoulder I believe safety would be improved most dramatically.

How would it be improved most dramatically. Yes there’s a small argument for the small duration of time between an incident occurring and said lane(s) the incident occurs in being marked as closed. After that no different to having a HS. If a lane is shut then people shouldn’t be driving in it, just like they shouldn’t be driving in the HS. It’s not rocket science but people seem to be trying to make out it is.

Again I go back to the lack of HS on dual carriageways etc, they’re not more or less dangerous as a result.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

How would it be improved most dramatically. Yes there’s a small argument for the small duration of time between an incident occurring and said lane(s) the incident occurs in being marked as closed. After that no different to having a HS. If a lane is shut then people shouldn’t be driving in it, just like they shouldn’t be driving in the HS. It’s not rocket science but people seem to be trying to make out it is.

Again I go back to the lack of HS on dual carriageways etc, they’re not more or less dangerous as a result.

Sorry, I've lost it, What's an HS? One of my pet "hates" is the modern love of shortening everything like this.

And with regard to the above it's very simply covered by: Idiots/incompetents and lack of concentration behind the wheel and another word - Compliance?

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Sorry, I've lost it, What's an HS? One of my pet "hates" is the modern love of shortening everything like this.

And with regard to the above it's very simply covered by: Idiots/incompetents and lack of concentration behind the wheel and another word - Compliance?

HS - hard shoulder.

I wasn’t going to type it every time as on the iPad currently

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

That would defeat the object. The whole point of doing away with the hard shoulder is to gain an additional live line allowing more vehicles to flow along the same stretch of road at peak times when there are no holdups such as breakdowns etc.

If someone breaks down then said live lane is shut down and becomes the hard shoulder while that’s being dealt with.

Oh yes, I completely understand why they are doing it. I just distrust the technology to actually detect the stationary, or very slowly moving, vehicle every time and then get the lane stopped just because it's got a red cross in a display above it. I also don't trust the "wide boys" to actually comply. If a barrier could be arranged to rise out of the carriageway to close the lane off then I'd trust it - obviously completely impossible with our present existing technology.