The smart motorway training covers this and states that there will never be different speed limits for different lanes. The gantry signs will always show the same speed for every lane that is open.
"smart" motorways
- Thread starter Pugglt Auld Jock
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"smart" motorways
I agree Jack
Most of us responding here are probably old enough to recall the 'continental' style 3 lane A road
A conventional single carriageway A road would be widened enough to accept an additional central lane
Lethal due to discourteuos driving..
They didnt last long in the UK
I drive on what is apparently the UKs second busiest stretch of motorway
Pre.covid it would be outer 2 lanes straight ahead ( through a tunnelled hillside)
The left lane is in essence a LONG sliproad.. City suburbs and a major A road
3 junctions in 2 miles
Outer lanes are shunting stationary traffic..
Inside lane has 50mph 'exiters'
The reason the outer 2 are crawling..?
The people who cover the 3 miles at 50mph.. then indicate right and park up just before the tunnel..
You cannot underestimate 'people'
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There were a few still around until only a few years ago. One was on the Banbury road, some way north of Oxford, but that has gone now.
The A420 just West of here was when I first arrived here, 1987, but disappeared early 90s I think. Some still try to create the extra middle lane.
There is still one stretch. On the A4 West of Marlborough towards Calne/Chippenham. Although this was the 'Great West Road', traffic is light most days, as everyone is on the M4 instead, so the extra lane works well for me.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4310095,-1.9251401,81m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
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Ireland (Eire) has very wide roads with enough space for two lanes. Drivers are supposed to keep left but they generally don't so the extra space is wasted with queues behind slow moving cars.
The A446 near Litchfield used to have three lanes it was a properly nasty road.
The A446 near Litchfield used to have three lanes it was a properly nasty road.
GeorgeDamper
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I regard to different lanes. I said, "variable speed signs with random numbers. Do they apply to all lanes just the slip road lanes or just one lane?"
the last two words were to illustrate the confusion these signs cause. What about M3 to M25? It regularly has a 40 limit on the slip road (probably too fast) but they also put the same limit across the lanes NOT going up the slip road. How is that helpful?
M42 just West of Birmingham airports chucks in a random 50 (across all lanes) when every other gantry before and after is showing 60. It's nasty because at a glance the 5 looks much like a six so it causes all sorts of sudden braking and trouble further back. It's always been there. I think regular drivers ignore it but there are more than enough who don't know its a sick joke.
I'm not against "smart" motorways. There are more than enough fast duals (eg A38, A303, A1) that don't have hard shoulders. What annoys me is poor deployment, refusal to fix errors and the massive cost of building them. The M4 Reading area has been mess for years and there are more years to come. Simply to install overhead gantries and dig the out hard shoulder to make proper foundations. The whole thing looks like a huge money pit scam.
the last two words were to illustrate the confusion these signs cause. What about M3 to M25? It regularly has a 40 limit on the slip road (probably too fast) but they also put the same limit across the lanes NOT going up the slip road. How is that helpful?
M42 just West of Birmingham airports chucks in a random 50 (across all lanes) when every other gantry before and after is showing 60. It's nasty because at a glance the 5 looks much like a six so it causes all sorts of sudden braking and trouble further back. It's always been there. I think regular drivers ignore it but there are more than enough who don't know its a sick joke.
I'm not against "smart" motorways. There are more than enough fast duals (eg A38, A303, A1) that don't have hard shoulders. What annoys me is poor deployment, refusal to fix errors and the massive cost of building them. The M4 Reading area has been mess for years and there are more years to come. Simply to install overhead gantries and dig the out hard shoulder to make proper foundations. The whole thing looks like a huge money pit scam.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Well you might be neutral but thankfully I think it was 78% who are not happy with them in a GEM or RoSPA survey recently. I agree with the stupidity of some of the speed limits bobbing up and down, but that's just our DoT at work we have just the same thing on the A47 with a national limit sign no more than 10m from a 50mph sign and even less between National limit, 50 and 30 limit signs near Dereham. And what exactly was the point of installing all these signs in the first place if its no longer necessary to ensure they visible and not are not totally hidden in the overgrown undergrowth. If we don't need to see them now they were never necessary. God help anyone who tries to tell me I should obey a limit which is not adequately displayed as I shall cause such a stink in every court in the land it would be cheaper for them to just maintain the roads and signs. I am thinking of suing the DoT for breaching its own rules under the Highways Act and the New Roads and Streetworks Act among others!!!!! I think there are also breaches by DoT and councils nationally of the HASAW Act as they are failing in their duty of care to those affected by their acts and omissions at work where they have a duty to carry out functions that they are failing so to do. Don't get me started on cats eyes and non existent lane markings on many motorways or signs that have collapsed due to rusted stanchions. This country is finished, its becoming third world and will never recover from its current state. The cost of recovery is now just too high. Its out of reach. Thanks Boris and the conservative cretins club, GOOD JOB.
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The beauty of hidden and confusing speed limit signs is they cannot hit you with a speeding fine so please let them sit and be glad you can ignore the lot of them.
That could be difficult to defend.
Many gantries have cameras, linked to the variable speed limits, set to start catching people around 40 seconds after any change. (Source: DVSA representative, speaking at local Advanced Drivers Group, 2019)
Any defence about the speed limits not being consistent might be difficult as they won't be there at the time of defence. Unless you have clear dashcam evidence of the random changes, it'll be the driver's word against a government department's. If there's one random low one, a defence might succeed, but if the speed measured is above the majority of signs, I doubt it.
Hopefully 'someone else' will test it, before any of us.
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All these schemes are ok if you drive them regularly, but many see them
once in a blue moon and this goes for other odd things like some junctions
so you have to try to make sense out of it wile traveling maybe looking for
a turning and in bad weather, the locals who know it like the back of their
hands are zipping about and cant understand why everyone is not doing the
same, you can soon end up with wreckage all over the place or at
best drivers serenading each other on there horns, not every one is local.
once in a blue moon and this goes for other odd things like some junctions
so you have to try to make sense out of it wile traveling maybe looking for
a turning and in bad weather, the locals who know it like the back of their
hands are zipping about and cant understand why everyone is not doing the
same, you can soon end up with wreckage all over the place or at
best drivers serenading each other on there horns, not every one is local.
One of my pet peeves is road layouts you have little chance of getting right at the 1st pass. As no one ever has any patience.
Everything should be laid out in a consistent manner across the country and clearly sign posted.
Don't do it so much now but there's been more than one occasion I ended up in an unfamiliar town centre trying to find my way to a destination. All the while trying to avoid, bus lanes...one ways, wanting to perhaps pull over and find a route but finding yourself on a red route/clearway...then realising it's heading onto the ring road and there's no left turn, right turn, stopping or u-turns and deciding **** it next town it is.
Was not a Fan of either Edinburgh or Sheffield...if anything sat nav is a massive help usually as you can stop worrying about do I need to turn here and just drive the road in front of you.
Everything should be laid out in a consistent manner across the country and clearly sign posted.
Don't do it so much now but there's been more than one occasion I ended up in an unfamiliar town centre trying to find my way to a destination. All the while trying to avoid, bus lanes...one ways, wanting to perhaps pull over and find a route but finding yourself on a red route/clearway...then realising it's heading onto the ring road and there's no left turn, right turn, stopping or u-turns and deciding **** it next town it is.
Was not a Fan of either Edinburgh or Sheffield...if anything sat nav is a massive help usually as you can stop worrying about do I need to turn here and just drive the road in front of you.
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I think I've only been to Sheffield once, and that was too often. A dark and wet evening, and inconsistent coloured roads. I can't remember now whether they were bus lanes, or tram lanes, but some were segregated, some shared, but the decision to colour the surface was not consistent with shared or separate. Very little other traffic, so no clues from the locals, was extremely difficult to know what bit of road I could use. Was no clearer in the daylight next day.
We have the Magic Roundabout in Swindon. This works very well for the locals, but is difficult for anyone seeing it for the first time. There is very little help from signs or road markings, and quite a few lanes which are of no use.
About ten years ago, at a meeting between the roads department and the local driving instructors association, I proposed a series of road markings, like diversion symbols, to plot a route to each destination. Each exit has a symbol on the sign, then the lanes have the symbols to follow. Unanimous acceptance. Two days later I submitted a diagram, with symbols, using existing lanes, no changes needed, just some paint. Council thanked, me. Still waiting for implementation. Meanwhile, it is easy to spot a visitor.
About ten years ago, at a meeting between the roads department and the local driving instructors association, I proposed a series of road markings, like diversion symbols, to plot a route to each destination. Each exit has a symbol on the sign, then the lanes have the symbols to follow. Unanimous acceptance. Two days later I submitted a diagram, with symbols, using existing lanes, no changes needed, just some paint. Council thanked, me. Still waiting for implementation. Meanwhile, it is easy to spot a visitor.
OP
OP
I've been around Edinburgh since my teenage years so know it like the back of my hand. Trouble is the powers that be keep on changing things. One way streets, No right turns, and these damned new cycle lanes. So you end up that the journey you made last week is not possible this week. Add into that the tram works and road works that seem to spring up at random and the whole thing is just chaos!
For me, up here, Livingston new town fills me with terror. Take a wrong turn there and you can end up absolutely miles away from where you want to be.
For me, up here, Livingston new town fills me with terror. Take a wrong turn there and you can end up absolutely miles away from where you want to be.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
I love the Magic R. Lets form a Friends of the Magic Roundabout society! Next visiting on 13th for sad passing off my father in Law and will be crossing this wonder of the world once more.
South Yorkshire was in an absolute mess in general if memory serves. All the roads budget seemed to have gone on speed cameras and paint, so massive pot holes everywhere and everyone watching their speedo not where they were going.
Even out of town it was a bit dicey as the roads seemed really badly marked. Things that on my home patch would warrant anti skid paint, slow painted on the road, chevrons etc...un marked. Had a few close calls and thought soddit I'll just do 40....much to the chagrin of the locals but driving it by sight there were few clues what a given corner may be just out of sight.
I'm generally happy to drive anywhere..but God they do their best in some places to make it a trial. Last trip to Edinburgh we did park and ride from the airport..
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The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Yes couldn't agree more. Its blind and sharp and 40ish is a pretty sensible max anyway. Its no fun when you come round that bend and there is a q of stationary traffic.That Me though is the daftest driven road in Europe. I was going East one day and passed an ambulance doing about 90. He and I were by far the slowest vehicles on the road. Most cars doing 120+. As usual police nowhere to be seen.
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Blackpool sea front is one of those semi pedestrian set up's, they had a
two or 3 stabs at it it's ok and as said before traffic as dwindled due to the
sense that anything can happen, some still get it wrong but if it moves someone
will crash it.
two or 3 stabs at it it's ok and as said before traffic as dwindled due to the
sense that anything can happen, some still get it wrong but if it moves someone
will crash it.
Our local stretch of motorway is a mish.mash, With 3 lanes
2 straight ahead (M4) left lane serving local traffic
It has a hard shoulder @60% of the time.. but people use the LH lane even if 'not local' as it still flows
Then stop at the next junction while indicating right to rejoin the M4 lanes..
Result : 2 stationary lanes
All under a 'managed by gantry' system
But the main busy section had been a Permanent 50MPH limit due to pollution
If they sorted out the lane discipline ..traffic could FLOW for 22 hours a day..rather than 14
That would have a profound effect on pollution
They are now talking about charging 'high pollution cars' on this stretch of public road
I would rather they dealt with what has been a 20+ year issue NOW.. before dealing with a 'selfpolicing' emissions problem
The amount of OLD diesels..same as 2-strokes.. has plummeted in the last 10 years.
2 straight ahead (M4) left lane serving local traffic
It has a hard shoulder @60% of the time.. but people use the LH lane even if 'not local' as it still flows
Then stop at the next junction while indicating right to rejoin the M4 lanes..
Result : 2 stationary lanes
All under a 'managed by gantry' system
But the main busy section had been a Permanent 50MPH limit due to pollution
If they sorted out the lane discipline ..traffic could FLOW for 22 hours a day..rather than 14
That would have a profound effect on pollution
They are now talking about charging 'high pollution cars' on this stretch of public road
I would rather they dealt with what has been a 20+ year issue NOW.. before dealing with a 'selfpolicing' emissions problem
The amount of OLD diesels..same as 2-strokes.. has plummeted in the last 10 years.
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