Have a suck on mine its a woodbine!lol
Christ im hijacking my own thread here!
Christ im hijacking my own thread here!
Same ol touchy subject !!!
- Thread starter MATT 68
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Same ol touchy subject !!!
SkinzCinqSporting said:
the speech in full:
http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol1no1/ep-rivers.html
read it through, you tell me if a man in his position, with the weight of power and policy he had, was right......
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Have just read it all through, and you may not like this but I think apart from the final bits he had a fair point, call me what you will, I don't care. He said the majority want to integrate, yet increasingly there is a minority who don't. Sounds just like the situation today to me.
i always try not to get involved with 'touchy subjects' such as this..
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Alex-R said:
Wise move, shame I can't say the same
well you live 'nd learn
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Alex-R said:well you live 'nd learn
Occasionally
Ah well people have opinions and they should be voiced 
woodbine
SkinzCinqSporting said:Occasionally
And it a shame that more people dont as you do
I am old enough to remember old Knocker Powell and His speach is coming true and unfolding as he had forseen it. Its a shame we havent got a government with the balls he had then this situation wouldnt exsist in the UK if they did. I am all for live and let live but only in a society that has laws for all and not just for a minority
Not my words people. The words of Enoch Powell in his "Rivers of blood" speech in 1968 posted by Jai.
Got to admit, this strikes a chord in the West midlands unfortunately. Go and read it people, it may be long winded and drawn out but its something that you should do:slayer:
Enoch Powell was sacked for making that speech, it effectively ended his mainland UK political career. Even the government of the day in the politically incorrect late 60's recognised Powell for what he really was, a right wing Nazi sympathiser.
Unfortunately he ended up as an MP for South Down in Northern Ireland and proceeded to try his best to ensure that the troubles in NI took hold as quickly as possible. The man was a lunatic, his views were insane and anyone quoting him in this day and age, with the hindsight of what Enoch Powell acheived, needs to look again at the history books, particularly in relation to what Enoch Powell achieved as an Ulster Unionist MP.
Unfortunately he ended up as an MP for South Down in Northern Ireland and proceeded to try his best to ensure that the troubles in NI took hold as quickly as possible. The man was a lunatic, his views were insane and anyone quoting him in this day and age, with the hindsight of what Enoch Powell acheived, needs to look again at the history books, particularly in relation to what Enoch Powell achieved as an Ulster Unionist MP.
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MATT 68 said:Nahh, i cant believe this the Quote from Kenny Everitt has been removed!!!:bang: Jesus, Hasnt anybody heard of him and have they no sense of humour! FOOK me! better brace myself for a warning over nothing!
I find lots of things funny - I have just read that comment and you must have a sick sense of humour to find that remotely funny
Edit - Yes my dad has lots of his stuff and in general i do find him funny
Sort of comment id expect off you sammi!
If you have been amused by Mr Everitt then you would no what context the comment was to be taken in!:bang:
Steve, read the speech, he predicted whats happening now. Whether he was right or wrong to do so is irrellevent! I didnt say i liked his beliefs or what he stood for, just that he commented that basically if people dont try to intergrate into communities then eventually trouble will occur and i firmly believe he was right on that score. It doesnt mean i condone that speech, it doesnt mean im a rascist but it does mean im a realist and dont give a stuff about political correctness.
It doesnt escape my notice that afro carribeans, west indians, africans etc dont cause the problems that SOME asian communities do. Would that be because they and their forefathers did their utmost to adapt to the British way of life?
I predicted several yrs ago that trouble was brewing in this country(Way before 9/11) and should that happen, it wont be everyone against the white man cos the afro-carribeans etc are cheesed off too (Just speek to em & youll see).
Once again, i re-iterate I AM, IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM A RASCIST just saying how i(& alot of other people) see it!
If you have been amused by Mr Everitt then you would no what context the comment was to be taken in!:bang:
Steve, read the speech, he predicted whats happening now. Whether he was right or wrong to do so is irrellevent! I didnt say i liked his beliefs or what he stood for, just that he commented that basically if people dont try to intergrate into communities then eventually trouble will occur and i firmly believe he was right on that score. It doesnt mean i condone that speech, it doesnt mean im a rascist but it does mean im a realist and dont give a stuff about political correctness.
It doesnt escape my notice that afro carribeans, west indians, africans etc dont cause the problems that SOME asian communities do. Would that be because they and their forefathers did their utmost to adapt to the British way of life?
I predicted several yrs ago that trouble was brewing in this country(Way before 9/11) and should that happen, it wont be everyone against the white man cos the afro-carribeans etc are cheesed off too (Just speek to em & youll see).
Once again, i re-iterate I AM, IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM A RASCIST just saying how i(& alot of other people) see it!
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its a pity one of the small details of mr powells manifesto has been convieniently ignored, as well as vastly reduced immigration quotas, forced repatriation was also mooted, after advertising, inducing and in some cases downright begging across the commonwealth for workers to come to britain post war to help rebuild a shattered country and economy, that would have been downright inhumane, yes mr powell may have predicted some of what has come to pass, but to say his way of dealing with it was right does you as much a disservice as it did his career.
i know i always refer to my time in dubai, but yet again it is relevant here. in dubai there is little integration, different races have little contact with each other. socially there is virtually no contact. different races use different pubs, clubs, shops, and to a certain extent even live in different areas of the city and work in different industries.
this causes no problems, everyone is free to live their lives in a manner very similar to their home country and exactly how they choose. the locals preserve their traditional way of life, while at the same time expats import thier own lifestyles and culture. there is hardly any mixing of different cultures.
this system works perfectly. over the years it matured into a society where different races (and social classes within each race) perform different roles. for example the british people all have good jobs, never unskilled or semiskilled jobs. Philipinos are solely performing unskilled jobs, mostly working in shops for example. Higher caste indians own businesses and handle all the trade, lowe caste indians are recruited for building roads, homes etc. Everyone knows their place and we all live together with no problems.
I fail to see why a similar situaiton can't occur in the uk. everyone in the UK feels threatened and believes their way of life will have to change for ever. Similar fears were felt by the local populaiton in Dubai during the late 70s and early 80s. But thier fears turned out to be unfounded. I think the fears in the UK will similarly be proven wrong. It is not a problem if we have a country where differnt cultures do not integrate. It works elsewhere and it can work here too.
Personally I can see advanatges for UK nationals. Unskilled jobs will be taken up by foreign workers, but those jobs aren't exactly desirable to most british workers so its not a real loss. Also it is more than likely that these foreign workers will be forced to live in poor areas, seperate to the communities of middle class british nationals. They prefer it this way and so do we, so why force integration on people who do not want it.
The only real problem with the UK situation is the british working class. They'll be fighting for jobs with the foreigners, fighting for homes, and they'll probably lose because the foreigners will work harder for less money. Thats the situation in many multicultural countries and i see no reason why the UK will differ. The problem is, how do we support the british working class?
The solution is a combination of several things. Firstly we need to export more skilled labour. Most of the world is crying out for skilled workers, and they are more than weilling to hire british people, usually for an excellent wage and providing a great lifestyle. If more british people leave to work abroad it will free up jobs in the UK. Also we need to consider training the british workforce. If foreigners are going to take the unskilled jobs there needs to be a suitably qualified british workforce to manage them and take up more senior and semi-skilled roles. Also there needs to be strict control of who is allowed to enter the country. A foreigner is not a problem, but a foreigner that is unable or unwilling to work will simply be a drain on our finances and resources and should not be allowed to emigrate to the UK. Similarly the number of people coming to live here should be limited so that the economy can firstly accomodate the number of people and secondly adapt to the changes in workforce and skills.
There's nothing to fear from a lack of racial integration, its worked abroad and it can work here. Fear of the unknown is natural. But it wont be half the problem everyone percieves. It never is. If you let the media stir up fear in the ignorant then the progression to a truely multicultural society will be a bumpier ride and will take longer to get right, but you cant prevent the inevitable, so accepting it and planning how it will happen is a far better use of time and energy. I dont think the majority of people in the UK have the foresight or understanding to see the situation like this, largely because their main source of informaiton and opinion is tabloid newpapers, and partly because british people are well known to be very ignorant of other cultures, and resist change more than most. but britiain will become more and more multicultural as time goes on no matter what people think. The ignorant always fear change, i believe it should be managed. if planning and control is used there is never anything to fear.
this causes no problems, everyone is free to live their lives in a manner very similar to their home country and exactly how they choose. the locals preserve their traditional way of life, while at the same time expats import thier own lifestyles and culture. there is hardly any mixing of different cultures.
this system works perfectly. over the years it matured into a society where different races (and social classes within each race) perform different roles. for example the british people all have good jobs, never unskilled or semiskilled jobs. Philipinos are solely performing unskilled jobs, mostly working in shops for example. Higher caste indians own businesses and handle all the trade, lowe caste indians are recruited for building roads, homes etc. Everyone knows their place and we all live together with no problems.
I fail to see why a similar situaiton can't occur in the uk. everyone in the UK feels threatened and believes their way of life will have to change for ever. Similar fears were felt by the local populaiton in Dubai during the late 70s and early 80s. But thier fears turned out to be unfounded. I think the fears in the UK will similarly be proven wrong. It is not a problem if we have a country where differnt cultures do not integrate. It works elsewhere and it can work here too.
Personally I can see advanatges for UK nationals. Unskilled jobs will be taken up by foreign workers, but those jobs aren't exactly desirable to most british workers so its not a real loss. Also it is more than likely that these foreign workers will be forced to live in poor areas, seperate to the communities of middle class british nationals. They prefer it this way and so do we, so why force integration on people who do not want it.
The only real problem with the UK situation is the british working class. They'll be fighting for jobs with the foreigners, fighting for homes, and they'll probably lose because the foreigners will work harder for less money. Thats the situation in many multicultural countries and i see no reason why the UK will differ. The problem is, how do we support the british working class?
The solution is a combination of several things. Firstly we need to export more skilled labour. Most of the world is crying out for skilled workers, and they are more than weilling to hire british people, usually for an excellent wage and providing a great lifestyle. If more british people leave to work abroad it will free up jobs in the UK. Also we need to consider training the british workforce. If foreigners are going to take the unskilled jobs there needs to be a suitably qualified british workforce to manage them and take up more senior and semi-skilled roles. Also there needs to be strict control of who is allowed to enter the country. A foreigner is not a problem, but a foreigner that is unable or unwilling to work will simply be a drain on our finances and resources and should not be allowed to emigrate to the UK. Similarly the number of people coming to live here should be limited so that the economy can firstly accomodate the number of people and secondly adapt to the changes in workforce and skills.
There's nothing to fear from a lack of racial integration, its worked abroad and it can work here. Fear of the unknown is natural. But it wont be half the problem everyone percieves. It never is. If you let the media stir up fear in the ignorant then the progression to a truely multicultural society will be a bumpier ride and will take longer to get right, but you cant prevent the inevitable, so accepting it and planning how it will happen is a far better use of time and energy. I dont think the majority of people in the UK have the foresight or understanding to see the situation like this, largely because their main source of informaiton and opinion is tabloid newpapers, and partly because british people are well known to be very ignorant of other cultures, and resist change more than most. but britiain will become more and more multicultural as time goes on no matter what people think. The ignorant always fear change, i believe it should be managed. if planning and control is used there is never anything to fear.
No they're not. They are words he quoted from another minister.MATT 68 said:
In your own words (from here):
MATT68 said:
There seem to be some varying views on the rationale for Enoch Powell's speech. I have seen some people saying that he was commenting on Britain not being able to support such a large influx of migrants. Which is something that's not a finished debate.
H
Whats your pointhmallett said:
? The quote i took is not out of context. Read it and you'll see Whether he took it from another minister or not he used it in HIS speech
That Dubai comparison is not in the least appropriate - on many levels!
Dubai is not a democracy. All those British doing lovely well paid jobs and living happily on their compounds, and keeping themselves smugly apart from the other races; well, fine for them.. Of course they are content. They only stay for a few years and then leave. They have no say in the political process and they have not settled there for good - otherwise they'd probably be expected to convert to Islam. Where's the freedom there? They are simply well paid hired help. Don't fool yourself. And as for the the low caste labouring Indians happily living in their camps - this is another myth!
The Indians are often terribly abused and exploited, both by higher caste Indians and by the locals. Believe me, they would love to have improved prospects, and not be kept down by accident of birth. Your smug description of an artificial utopia is so complacent and wide of the mark I cannot believe you had the nerve to write it. I guess you are so incredibly self-satisfied that you are utterly insensitive to and actually unaware of your content!!!
And my middle eastern experinces are very different. I will be visiting Oman in the new year and staying with Omani friends - and I am not alone - so I suggest that there is mixing across the nationalities and that it is a good thing.
Your ideas of segregation; apartheid, are ghettoisation.
This cannot be a model for Britain, not my Britain anyway. I find your opinions frightening. Forget Enoch Powell; you make me think of Oswald Moseley. Horrified.
Dubai is not a democracy. All those British doing lovely well paid jobs and living happily on their compounds, and keeping themselves smugly apart from the other races; well, fine for them.. Of course they are content. They only stay for a few years and then leave. They have no say in the political process and they have not settled there for good - otherwise they'd probably be expected to convert to Islam. Where's the freedom there? They are simply well paid hired help. Don't fool yourself. And as for the the low caste labouring Indians happily living in their camps - this is another myth!
The Indians are often terribly abused and exploited, both by higher caste Indians and by the locals. Believe me, they would love to have improved prospects, and not be kept down by accident of birth. Your smug description of an artificial utopia is so complacent and wide of the mark I cannot believe you had the nerve to write it. I guess you are so incredibly self-satisfied that you are utterly insensitive to and actually unaware of your content!!!
And my middle eastern experinces are very different. I will be visiting Oman in the new year and staying with Omani friends - and I am not alone - so I suggest that there is mixing across the nationalities and that it is a good thing.
Your ideas of segregation; apartheid, are ghettoisation.
This cannot be a model for Britain, not my Britain anyway. I find your opinions frightening. Forget Enoch Powell; you make me think of Oswald Moseley. Horrified.
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