Same ol touchy subject !!!

[Dobby]

its the jew's religion, they created it, well "stictly speaking" a small subset of jews created it. then it was discovered by the roman empire and they modified it to suit them and distributed it across their empire. then each member of the empire modified it to suit them. then in the later empire bulding it was again distributed to the "collonies" and again modified to suit. which is why there are so many differnt flavours of chrisitanity, and they are so very different, and none are even similar to the original.

so given that my daughter was christened into the church of england.... you tell me what <if any> her religion is?

 

[Morritt]

i agree with again some of what you say jug, but i also see dobby's point of view, i dont want my kids (when/if i have any) learning about other religions before chrisianity, i'm not religious but i tend to lean towards christianity because thats how i was brought up (and i still like to celebrate christmas etc), i am happy that some people take comfort in religion and as long as they dont force that on me i will let them be.

religion is an issue for many people though, what you are saying is we need to be so liberal we dont encourage children to take to religion, if they want to then thats up to them, theres a lot of good points about being religion you realise, theres a strong sense of "good" in religion, not teaching this and encouraging this will only lead into a downward spiral of trouble with nobody having any morals because they were never instilled into them.

also, if we drop religion from the curriculum and family life, you expect the worlds other religions to decide this is a good idea? no, this will only benefit the other religions who will carry on doing what they do. and when you consider the countries where the religious leader is also the political leader (a BIG nono in my book) you think they would be willing to lose some of the power they hold over their people?

 

[jug]

if we drop religion from the curriculum and family life, you expect the worlds other religions to decide this is a good idea? no, this will only benefit the other religions who will carry on doing what they do. and when you consider the countries where the religious leader is also the political leader (a BIG nono in my book) you think they would be willing to lose some of the power they hold over their people?

i agree. its not practicle to "drop" religion in the current political climate. but i think in reality religion will shrink and weaken in the developed world as education improves, then the rest of the world will follow, as is always the case with these things, and also exactly how the world's common religions propegated in the first place.

the USA is a prime example of a religious leader in power, bush is part of "god's army" as they say. in the past america targetted others based on political stance (communism) but that has been swapped for a religious focus and now islam is the target. different people, different agendas, but the human aspect of attacking what is different to your own will always remain. even after religion is gone we'll still kill each other over pointless things. isn't humanity crap!

 

[Dobby]

i agree. its not practicle to "drop" religion in the current political climate. but i think in reality religion will shrink and weaken in the developed world as education improves, then the rest of the world will follow, as is always the case with these things, and also exactly how the world's common religions propegated in the first place.

the USA is a prime example of a religious leader in power, bush is part of "god's army" as they say. in the past america targetted others based on political stance (communism) but that has been swapped for a religios focus and not islam is the target. differnt people, different agendas, but the human aspect of attacking what is differnt to your own will always remain. even after religion is gone we'll still kill each other over a pointless things. isn't humanity crap!

why after thousands of years do you remain adamant that religion will disappear?

Its an idealistic view that just isn't going to happen.

 

[jug]

so given that my daughter was christened into the church of england.... you tell me what <if any> her religion is?

church of england means christian protestant. that means her religion is based on the protestant reformation from the sixteen century. a fairly modern branch of christianity with relaxed values which was implemented by Martin Luther and his 95 Theses. its all about revolting from catholic/orthodox ways to create a new 16th century version of christianity. of all the large christian faiths it is least closely related to the original faith.

although the exact religious values she is given will depend on the actual person(s) who instill it in her. protestantism is more flexible and open to interpretaion than most verison of the religion.

 

[jug]

why after thousands of years do you remain adamant that religion will disappear?

Its an idealistic view that just isn't going to happen.

there's a lot more evident to suggest it will happen than there ever was evidence to support half the bible stories.
read journals instead of tabloids and you'll see its not just my idea, many scholars think it will happen too. in the developed world there is already a stong correlation between level of education and religious belief, generally the more well educated a population becomes the less stong their beliefs in religion are.

 

[MATT 68]

the USA is a prime example of a religious leader in power, bush is part of "god's army" as they say. in the past america targetted others based on political stance (communism) but that has been swapped for a religious focus and now islam is the target. different people, different agendas, but the human aspect of attacking what is different to your own will always remain.

The USA didnt start this crap! Have you a short memory? Let me remind you,

2 innocent civillian aeroplanes + a group of Islamic religious nutters + Two skyscrapers = mass murder of innocent civilians minding their own buisiness:bang:

 

[jug]

The USA didnt start this crap! Have you a short memory? Let me remind you,

2 innocent civillian aeroplanes + a group of Islamic religious nutters + Two skyscrapers = mass murder of innocent civilians minding their own buisiness:bang:

do you even know why they did that? do you even know who the taliban are or why they hate america?

america created the taliban. they give them training, arms, vehicles, the whole lot. why? because america needed someone to fight the russians (communism) to stop it speading across the middle east. they created the taliban to do this for them. in those days america and the taliban were best friends.

that all changed because america's foreign policies in the middle east are shocking. the thing sthat have happened in the middle east during the last 50 years really are beyond belief. you dont know about most of it because the tabloids dont print it because it doesnt sell papers. america play people against each other and treat everyone like idiots. they've done what they want where they want for a long time with no regard to the future. well now the future is here and america will get what they deserve.

if you did even a tiny bit of research and stopped reading the papers you'd know all this already.

 

[Morritt]

well, thats more political than anything religious, the us attacked afghanistan and iraq over terrorist activities (and in order to stabilise oil production if you will), as the most powerful nation in the world, when a bunch of poorly (in relative terms) armed and trained religious fanatics give you a bloody nose you give them one back (and more)

 

[Dobby]

do you even know why they did that? do you even know who the taliban are or why they hate america?

america created the taliban. they give them training, arms, vehicles, the whole lot. why? because america needed someone to fight the russians (communism) to stop it speading across the middle east. they created the taliban to do this fo rthem. in those days america and the taliban were best friends.

that all changed because america's foreign policies in the middle east are shocking. they play people against each other and treat everyone like idiots. they've done what they want where they want for a long time with no regard to the future. well now the future is here and america will get what they deserve.

if you did even a tiny bit of research and stopped reading the papers you'd know all this already.

not much consolation for the family of the 2 year old child that was blown up in her mothers arms though is it?

 

[Morritt]

if anything its not america that has turned this war into a religious one, look at the people involved and you will not see any of them declaring their problem with islam, the issue of religion is only brought in by the "terrorists" who are now left defending themselves after it all kicked off, they do after all need all the help they can get.

 

[Morritt]

do you even know why they did that? do you even know who the taliban are or why they hate america?

america created the taliban. they give them training, arms, vehicles, the whole lot. why? because america needed someone to fight the russians (communism) to stop it speading across the middle east. they created the taliban to do this for them. in those days america and the taliban were best friends.

that all changed because america's foreign policies in the middle east are shocking. the thing sthat have happened in the middle east during the last 50 years really are beyond belief. you dont know about most of it because the tabloids dont print it because it doesnt sell papers. america play people against each other and treat everyone like idiots. they've done what they want where they want for a long time with no regard to the future. well now the future is here and america will get what they deserve.

if you did even a tiny bit of research and stopped reading the papers you'd know all this already.

again, i do agree with the prncipal of what you say, i belive (and i need to research this some more) that the americans didnt create the taliban but the mujahadeen (sp?)? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen)

yes this was to undermine the soviet presence in afghanistan, and yes the CIA did all the funding (and are still doing it now), america isnt playing people against people for the fun of it and to exploit them, yes they used and supplied a group to accomplish their goals. but after ousting the commie russians things didnt exactly go to plan did they? i doubt very much they were happy and intended a violent religious group taking over control, but it suited their needs at the time so they ignored it, only when it bit them in their arse did they do anything about it

 

[jug]

america has killed hundreds of people for every american that has been killed. its has been happening for more than half a century in the middle east. what you are basing your opinon on is only very recent events. to understand the present, and predict the future, you must first understand the past. please do some research and then base your opinons on that.

EDIT: nice to see you're read about the mujahideen

 

[MATT 68]

do you even know why they did that? do you even know who the taliban are or why they hate america?

america created the taliban. they give them training, arms, vehicles, the whole lot. why? because america needed someone to fight the russians (communism) to stop it speading across the middle east. they created the taliban to do this for them. in those days america and the taliban were best friends.

that all changed because america's foreign policies in the middle east are shocking. the thing sthat have happened in the middle east during the last 50 years really are beyond belief. you dont know about most of it because the tabloids dont print it because it doesnt sell papers. america play people against each other and treat everyone like idiots. they've done what they want where they want for a long time with no regard to the future. well now the future is here and america will get what they deserve.

if you did even a tiny bit of research and stopped reading the papers you'd know all this already.

Do you think im fcuking stupid Jug. Im well aware of what you state! im not a kid! However, You saying, and i quote"America will get what they deserve" has finally shown you in your true colours. Anybody who can say that is no better than what lies in the gutter.Thats just a view of someone who is no better than the religious nutters who took part in 9/11. You have severely p*ssed me off pal, more than anybody on here ever has before. You need your head looking at and the least said about your beleifs the better!
Nothing justifies what was dished out on 9/11 IDIOT!

 

[Morritt]

if you read my linked wikipedia article you will see that america funded the mujahideen, which after the collapse of soviet russia was split into the pakistani funded taliban and the northern alliance (which was the local allied forces in the recent war).

so yes some of us do know what we are talking about more than a little, i dont profess to be an expert in this but i know more than a little.

 

[jug]

sorry. your right i should not have said that. i dont mean the population of america get what they deserve, i mean the american administration are experiencing the problems that were inevitable and created by themselves. no one deserves to die, and i feel for the families on both sides.

 

[MATT 68]

please do some research and then base your opinons on that.

Who the hell do you think you are???? Do you think you are the only person with an education on the forum ? Well i hate to dissapoint you but you'll be shocked at the intelligence of some people on here.Stop patronising people and jumping to conclusions about them. Bigot!

 

[jug]

if you read my linked wikipedia article you will see that america funded the mujahideen, which after the collapse of soviet russia was split into the pakistani funded taliban and the northern alliance (which was the local allied forces in the recent war).

so yes some of us do know what we are talking about more than a little, i dont profess to be an expert in this but i know more than a little.

as is often the case, wiki is not stictly accurate. the taliban was continually funded by america once it broke off as a seperate extremist movement. america attempted to play the different sides off against each other to maintain instability in the region, while at the same time funding each group. the taliban gained control and then they were understandably not happy about the fact that america was paying them and their enemies to fight each other. also america "promised" control of afganistan to several different groups as a reward if they defeated russia. once successful none of them were allowed to take control. this has created a situaiton where all the groups hate each other, but they all hate america just as much, and if you tell lies and play these games you deserve to be hated (but people still dont deserve to be blown up).

sorry i didnt mean to be patronising, i'm just tired of hearing arguments based on tabloid headlines. i'm well aware there are many intelligent and well read people on this forum, its one of the reasons i joined

 

[Morritt]

sorry i'm trying to find these references to american funding directly to the taliban ...

 

[MATT 68]

sorry i'm trying to find these references to american funding directly to the taliban ...

so i take it you'll be some time then?