Technical Panda Headlight H4 Connector Melted!

[KurtVerbose]

So I noticed that one of the dipped beams on our Panda wasn't working. Changing the bulb didn't fix it and I noticed that the connector was a bit melted and charred.

I checked the other one and although it was working it was so much worse that it fell apart as I took it out.

So I did a bit of research and found out about the block connector issue and pulled it out. One connector was a bit charred, but I've seen worse on the internet.

So I've removed the lamps as they will need new block connectors (which I've ordered), and I've ordered a new block connector. Just wondering if that's the route cause of the problem. It's quite a palaver getting all this done so I don't want to do it twice.

The other thing I don't really understand is the revised block connector has thicker wires, but you still join it onto the original thinner wires. Doesn't that just shift the problem?

By the way, bulbs are standard. Don't know if they always have been. Maybe someone in the past put brighter bulbs in? Fuses are ok.

All suggestions and feedback gratefully appreciated!

 

[KurtVerbose]

Seems I'm not the only one.

Weird.

 

[The Panda Nut]

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I am sure you can obtain compatible connectors. I personally wouldnt hesitate t remove the connector blocks and solder the wires only adding the bulb connecto plugs. You can get these from any compatible car in a scrap yard. and solder them in.
Fiat wiring is something else.... Colours seem to be random and mean nearly nothing so you need to establish which does what by use of a test light or volt / multimeter. Newer cars tend to have thinner wires especially those with can bus systems which work more like a ring main and are ecu controlled.. Maybe someone has been running Xenon or gas discgarge light. and this is te the entirely predictable result?

 

[KurtVerbose]

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Cable Repair Solutions - Fiat Spare Parts Online - Augustin Group is your specialist for Genuine, OEM and OE spare parts for Fiat, Fiat Professional, Alfa Romeo, Abarth, Jeep, Chrysler & Lancia

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I am sure you can obtain compatible connectors. I personally wouldnt hesitate t remove the connector blocks and solder the wires only adding the bulb connecto plugs. Fiat wiring is something else.... Newere cars tend to have thinner wires especially those with can bus systems which work more like a ring main and are ecu controlled.. Maybe someone has been running Xenon or gas discgarge light. and this is te the entirely predictable result?

Yes, I've already ordered replacement connectors. It's just standard H4 bulb connectors.

 

[varesecrazy]

This definitely was mention 8 to 10 years ago on here

I watched with interest..

As the 2004 I had at the time used no bulbs..or fuses in the 14 years I owned it

So long ago..I cannot recall who was involved ( probably predates @koalar .. but not @DaveMcT )

 

[koalar]

The problem is caused by high resistance on the connector

Usally due to a buildup of oxides on the connector, pins or both due to damp

Once it starts it acts just the same as the heating eliments in a hair dryer

Once the parts are cleaned/replaced they are fine,

If you apply some dielectric grease before reassembling moisture can cause a problem again

I use vasaline yes technically it's not as good, lower melting point and so on. But in the real world 10 years later there no reoccurrence

Just don't forget to scrap clean the pins as well a little screwdriver works for me


The wire thikness on 05 and 06 pandas are well up to the job, The weakness is the connector

 

[KurtVerbose]

The problem is caused by high resistance on the connector

Usally due to a buildup of oxides on the connector, pins or both due to damp

Once it starts it acts just the same as the heating eliments in a hair dryer

Once the parts are cleaned/replaced they are fine,

If you apply some dielectric grease before reassembling moisture can cause a problem again

I use vasaline yes technically it's not as good, lower melting point and so on. But in the real world 10 years later there no reoccurrence

Just don't forget to scrap clean the pins as well a little screwdriver works for me


The wire thikness on 05 and 06 pandas are well up to the job, The weakness is the connector

Ah, that explains the wires.

Could this in anyway be connected to the bulb connectors melting or is that a separate issue? My feeling is that is a separate one off incident to do with an unnecessary bulb upgrade because I've changed the bulbs before and they were charred then, although they didn't fall apart.

I will follow your instructions. I have some dielectric grease.

 

[KurtVerbose]

This definitely was mention 8 to 10 years ago on here

I watched with interest..

As the 2004 I had at the time used no bulbs..or fuses in the 14 years I owned it

So long ago..I cannot recall who was involved ( probably predates @koalar .. but not @DaveMcT )

Yes, there are threads about the block connector but not about the melting bulb connector that I could find using the search. When I used google search I found one.

 

[varesecrazy]

The problem is caused by high resistance on the connector

Usally due to a buildup of oxides on the connector, pins or both due to damp

Once it starts it acts just the same as the heating eliments in a hair dryer

Once the parts are cleaned/replaced they are fine,

If you apply some dielectric grease before reassembling moisture can cause a problem again

I use vasaline yes technically it's not as good,

Both will offer a protectve layer,
Preventing Oxidisation : corrosion

Tail lights on the punto suffer similar problems.. its the connectors..not the bulbs

 

[koalar]

Yes, there are threads about the block connector but not about the melting bulb connector that I could find using the search. When I used google search I found one.

Yes

BSI (body computer)
Front bulb holder
Rear light cluster
Earth leads
Battery terminals
And others

All suffer the same way with corrosion leading to melted connectors

Damp getting into the housing doesn't help

Leaving the main beam on while stationery isn't a good idea, it's not in the Panda owners manual but I have own cars where you are warned about the lack of air cooling

BSI also sometimes fail due to blocked duckbills

 

[koalar]

Seems I'm not the only one.

Weird.

That's the old square panda

But you are correct you are not alone

 

[A3jeroen]

Installed a new connector in my 100HP long time ago. Worked for 7 years in my possession. I am still in contact with the current owner and it is still ok.
Had the bulbconnectors burned in my Tipo's. A guy in my neighborhood owns a Seicento Abarth and he had one burnt too. So not uncommon.

gr J

 

[KurtVerbose]

Ok, thanks guys.

I'll provide an update when I have the parts and it's back on the road.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Installed a new connector in my 100HP long time ago. Worked for 7 years in my possession. I am still in contact with the current owner and it is still ok.
Had the bulbconnectors burned in my Tipo's. A guy in my neighborhood owns a Seicento Abarth and he had one burnt too. So not uncommon.

gr J

Suggests there were some duff parts in the supply chain for a while as most of these things would last for 100 years.

 

[porta]

This was very common on classic Tipo, where the terminals inside the connector block would ‘open out’ and cause arcing, on some, we also added an earth.
Ive only experienced it once in a 169 panda and it was indeed due to moisture within the connectors and the crimped part of the wires. Simply cut back to decent wire and soldered in new connector block

 

[KurtVerbose]

The bulb connectors arrived so I fitted them and put the car back together. No idea why there are such different coloured wires.

I tested the lights just to see if they worked, not expecting the broken one to light up, but it did.

Really surprised as the block connector in the cabin is a bit burnt on one terminal, and also the headlight with the really badly burnt bulb connector, the connector that fell apart when I removed it, wasn't the one that wasn't working.

I'm still waiting for the cabin block connector, but it's not a lot less urgent.

This car is really fulfilling the stereotype of Italian electrics!

 

[koalar]

Not just a Fiat thing

Car are just made to a price, As long as they last a decade or more the manufacture done a reasonable job

Some of these 169 last nearly 20 years without much doing to them.

 

[porta]

The Italian Electrics thing is a falacy, and most issues with Fiats were poor earths.
Having worked on French, German, Japanese, US, Korean and British stuff, I can tell you that British stuff, esp Land Rover, were far worse.

 

[KurtVerbose]

The Italian Electrics thing is a falacy, and most issues with Fiats were poor earths.
Having worked on French, German, Japanese, US, Korean and British stuff, I can tell you that British stuff, esp Land Rover, were far worse.

While I know it's built to a price, under specifying a wire by 0.5mm that later arcs and shorts is really a bit cheap. Granted, it did take 13 years for it to happen, so I won't get too upset about it.

The Panda is my wife's car. My car is a 2007 Range Rover. It's done well over 100k miles. I've had it 6 years and so far it's been reliable. I know not all Range Rover owners have been so lucky. Previously I had a 2003 TD6, and although I got it to 240,000 km's, and did a lot of towing with it, it was nowhere near as reliable as this one. The TD6 needed a gearbox replacement, fortunately paid for by the previous owner, and I had to replace the steering rack, glow plugs and injectors, plus a load of other things. Corrosion was a problem on it. It was eventually sold for scrap as it was becoming too unreliable and maintenance heavy. So yes, Land Rover ownership is a lottery. In their defence, pretty easy to do a lot of work yourself with the right code reader and equipment.

I did have a Mercedes, and that was awful. I got rid of it ASAP. Very unreliable, no chance you can do the work yourself so very expensive to run.

We've had our 2010 Panda 4.5 years now and done 60k km's out of it's +180k km's. It cost us peanuts to buy and it's been very cheap to run. My wife learnt to drive it it so it has a particular attachment to her. I did the cam belt/water pump when I bought it and apart from routine servicing it's only needed front control arms, exhaust clamps, brakes, battery and a crank position sensor. Most, if not all of those things I would call routine maintenance on a car this age. It's only recently that it's got any kind of corrosion on it. I'm happy with the car, and it's so simple that it's never been to a garage apart from having the tracking done. If I'd had to pay for this maintenance though, there's a chance the car would've already been scrapped. An example - the front exhaust clamp rusted through. Fiat only sells the whole exhaust manifold with the clamp. I bought a clamp like it but too big and then bent it round a mandrill to fit.

To be honest the car owes us nothing. If it died tomorrow it would still have been very good value at about £400 per year in depreciation. We drive it if we can rather than the RR because it's far cheaper to run and actually a lot more fun to drive. We only take the RR if we need the space.

Anyway, thanks for all your help guys, appreciated!

 

[kmor panda]

So I noticed that one of the dipped beams on our Panda wasn't working. Changing the bulb didn't fix it and I noticed that the connector was a bit melted and charred.

I checked the other one and although it was working it was so much worse that it fell apart as I took it out.
View attachment 428018

So I did a bit of research and found out about the block connector issue and pulled it out. One connector was a bit charred, but I've seen worse on the internet.
View attachment 428019

So I've removed the lamps as they will need new block connectors (which I've ordered), and I've ordered a new block connector. Just wondering if that's the route cause of the problem. It's quite a palaver getting all this done so I don't want to do it twice.
View attachment 428022

Car wiring, by design, is at the minimum that the accountant / designer can get away with. As a result, when there is any dirt or contamination on interconnectors, these tend to arc, heat up and melt the plastic connector holders. Best bet is to use a spray contact cleaner (not WD40 or spray oil) before reconecting any car electrical connectors.

Another cause of the overheating problem is loose connections on either/both battery and/or alternator. The battery in a car acts as a capacitor for the ac created by the alternator to give the smooth DC required for most car bulbs / electronics. This means that when a battery and/or alternator looses connection, voltages and current can shoot up to 10-100 times the 11-15v DC required. These are known to blow bulbs etc. For some cars, the earth connections on the rear light cluster can be burnt / fail which results in blinking tail lights when indicators are on.