Technical Panda cambelt and pump quote to much ??

[pcb]

Update, collected my car earlier I was charged £220 labour which is fine the guy who gave me original quote was not there so what was a nice surprise at first turned to horror when he told me the clicking noise I heard was coming from the gearbox and I needed to get a used one and they would fit it, they said the gearbox oil was low and metalic ? or something .
Questions I have- which other fiats share the same gearbox as the Panda 1.2, year 2011, is this a common problem, its only done 62000 miles, how much should I be paying for a second hand one and where is the best place. I am in the SK10 area.
It still drives fine just has a clickety sound, they could find no fault for the noise near left hand wheel. The gearbox noise only started about 2 weeks ago so how long before it packs in ? Any help gratefully received.

 

[koalar]

The 500 1.2 is identical to the pre eco gearbox

The difference between the eco vs non eco is negligible

I fitted one without problem

No idea how long it will last

Did they top up the gear oil

 

[AnthonyH]

Not too long ago someone posted this link and I saved it for future reference, they're in Manchester.

Security measure

www.ebay.co.uk

They'll supply and fit a fiat gearbox for £400. I doubt you'll get anywhere near that price elsewhere. I've not used them, had no need to, but if you do I'd be interested in how it goes, so please post back here.

 

[pcb]

The 500 1.2 is identical to the pre eco gearbox

The difference between the eco vs non eco is negligible

I fitted one without problem

No idea how long it will last

Did they top up the gear oil

They said topping up the oil would make no difference but I don,t understand why not, thanks for Manchester spares link.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

They said topping up the oil would make no difference but I don,t understand why not, thanks for Manchester spares link.

It would make no difference to damage already done but might make it last marginally longer before total failure so I don't follow the logic here. I'd be whipping that level plug out right now and topping it up if they didn't. On a more general note, I think many transmissions fail due to low oil. They don't contain large amounts of lube, a couple of litres or less on smaller cars is not unusual so quite a small leak can have a big effect. I check transmission oil level in all our vehicles at every service, especially if I see any obvious leaks from such as driveshaft seals or bell housing - the "sulphury" smell of the gear oil often aids in identifying what's leaking if the leak is difficult to pinpoint.

 

[AnthonyH]

They said topping up the oil would make no difference but I don,t understand why not, thanks for Manchester spares link.

If it's empty topping it up will make a big difference, but it probably isn't, and it'll only make a small difference.

You can pretty easily pay £300-£400 for a second hand gearbox. You'll have to hunt around for cheaper.

 

[koalar]

Very vague

"gearbox oil was low and metalic "

If they just opened the fill and there is a bit of glitter "brass" in the oil is normal

If they drain the oil and found chunks of gears, there's no reason not to top it off when putting it back, we just don't have enough information and without being there it hard to advise


Generally a light rattle will either be the clutch release bearing or the gearbox input bearing, there next to each other and sound similar, neither require a new gearbox

If all the gear select fine
If all the gear disengage fine
No judder or shacking as you lift the clutch
And the noise isn't worse just in one or a couple of gears

There's a good chance the gearbox will not need replacing

 

[koalar]

Update, collected my car earlier I was charged £220 labour

Book time is 2.5H

So sounds about right

I know it can be done in half an hour, using the mark up method, but you are are also paying for the expertise, warranty, ramp time, electric, rates and so on

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Very vague

"gearbox oil was low and metalic "

If they just opened the fill and there is a bit of glitter "brass" in the oil is normal

If they drain the oil and found chunks of gears, there's no reason not to top it off when putting it back, we just don't have enough information and without being there it hard to advise


Generally a light rattle will either be the clutch release bearing or the gearbox input bearing, there next to each other and sound similar, neither require a new gearbox

If all the gear select fine
If all the gear disengage fine
No judder or shacking as you lift the clutch
And the noise isn't worse just in one or a couple of gears

There's a good chance the gearbox will not need replacing

I agree. Gearbox oil which has brass coloured "pearl effect" - so it looks a bit like nail polish - usually indicates a bit of synchro wear and is nothing to worry about on an elderly box. I'm trying to imagine what, inside the box, might make your clickety noise? Gears tend to whine and bearings rumble or rub, but a clicking noise? I'm out of ideas.

 

[AnthonyH]

Generally a light rattle will either be the clutch release bearing or the gearbox input bearing, there next to each other and sound similar, neither require a new gearbox

If all the gear select fine
If all the gear disengage fine
No judder or shacking as you lift the clutch
And the noise isn't worse just in one or a couple of gears

There's a good chance the gearbox will not need replacing

I believe this to be correct. It'd be a similar amount of labour too.

The garage will probably want to avoid this though. It could be that they get the gearbox off to change the clutch release bearing etc., then decide it does need a different gearbox and they have to wait for it to arrive.

What would I do in this scenario? Drain the gearbox oil, replace the oil, and drive the car until the problem becomes more apparent. As being mooted above this may be the clutch.

 

[jrkitching]

It would make no difference to damage already done but might make it last marginally longer before total failure so I don't follow the logic here.

I don't follow the logic either.

But there's something else to think about here.

Gearboxes don't consume oil in normal operation; if there's less in it now than here should be, then it's leaked out somewhere. It may have leaked out the differential side, in which case you'll notice oil misting or even outright leakage on one or both driveshafts. But it may have leaked out the input side, in which case it'll have gone into the bellhousing and will eventually find its way onto the clutch. This latter case is reasonably common with these 'boxes; the input shaft bearing is well known for wearing excessively, and when this happens, it often causes the input shaft oil seal to leak.

A small top up to account for a little driveshaft misting wouldn't concern me, but if you have to put a lot in to account for a significant leak on the input shaft seal, then most of what you put in is probably going to come straight back out onto the clutch, and then you're going to have to both rebuild the gearbox and replace the clutch.

In short, if you need to add a lot of oil and this seems like it's fixed the problem, chances are you're going to have a worse problem not too far down the line.

If this were my car, I'd drop an endoscope into the bellhousing to make sure everything is as it should be. And I'd be budgeting for pulling the gearbox, replacing the input shaft bearing & oil seal, and a new clutch.

Unless something majorly catastrophic has happened, I'd rather rebuild a gearbox I knew than take a chance on a used 'box from a breaker, which will quite likely have similar or even worse wear to the one you're taking out.

 

[pcb]

Hi all, been away from computer thanks for reply's, on report they made it says drive shaft oil leak I don't know if that would affect anything, I know nothing about gearbox's, the thing is it selects gears ok no grinding just this annoying sound that go's away once up to speed, they said they will fit a recon box if I can find one, I hear what you say about putting more oil in but I am tempted to, I really need to have a long drive in it tomorrow and evaluate the noise and how it performs. Given the replies so far I am beginning to feel a little more optimistic.

 

[AnthonyH]

A driveshaft oil leak is very common, I have one on my EVO. I topped up the gearbox oil recently as a precaution. Its really not worth fixing. Once a year top it up. This oil leak is unlikely to be related to the click sound.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

A driveshaft oil leak is very common, I have one on my EVO. I topped up the gearbox oil recently as a precaution. Its really not worth fixing. Once a year top it up. This oil leak is unlikely to be related to the click sound.

If it's the N/S then take a good look at where the oil is coming from. Not unusual to find it's the gear selector shaft on the top of the box which is leaking and then dribbling down the side of the box to the driveshaft. I've seen this often and it looks awful but rarely actually looses much oil. You can happily go for years with it just topping up a cupful or less every year at service time.

 

[Yolanda]

Many thanks for all the replies, if I were to do it I would use the locking tool on the crank and mark it up before removal however this morning my breathings got pretty laboured ( 68 ya with copd ) it always gets worse when the weather turns, anyway its booked in tomorrow even though I reckon I'm being overcharged £100, there's also a loud cracking noise on heavy breaking and reversing with full left hand lock on coming from passenger side wheel area, this garage replaced the struts last year so are looking at that, hope they don't charge me if its a strut, it certainly sound suspension related.

I've been following this thread with great interest as it went from cam belt change to gearbox noise. Looking at this earlier post, could the clicking sound be a worn CV joint.
Sorry if I've missed something along the way.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I've been following this thread with great interest as it went from cam belt change to gearbox noise. Looking at this earlier post, could the clicking sound be a worn CV joint.
Sorry if I've missed something along the way.

Aye, might be worth just checking out. However the garage diagnosed the gearbox and you'd hope a "professional" would know the difference? A CV makes a very recognizable sound if you're used to hearing them.

 

[koalar]

CV is quite slow and matches road speed

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

CV is quite slow and matches road speed

and more usually makes more noise on full lock.

 

[Yolanda]

The op doesn't say what the tempo of the click is but he says it does it when reversing on full left-hand lock and when braking.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The op doesn't say what the tempo of the click is but he says it does it when reversing on full left-hand lock and when braking.

Hmmm. Reversing on full lock is a good way to get a CV to "click" if it's worn but when braking? Is that braking in a straight line? I wouldn't say braking would typically show up a worn CV.