Technical Panda cambelt and pump quote to much ??

[pcb]

Hi all, I went to a local garage today and got a quote for labour only cambelt and water pump, I already have the parts from shop4parts costing £66.86 with a auxiliary belt as well and £16 for coolant off ebay taking my cost to £82.86.

The garage I went to says its two and a half hours labour which with vat is £390 which will take my total to £472.86 including the parts I already bought. I have seen a mobile mechanic online charging £345 supplied and fitted. I am wondering if I made a mistake ordering the parts and whether to have a go myself. I have a council garage and time isn't an issue. Am I being overcharged and is it that hard diy if I follow a youtube tutorial.

All opinions welcome

 

[koalar]

I change one, without water pump in about 1/2 hour now

But I done a few

The first one took fair few hours reading, having brews, double checking and so on

Garage isn't interested in you buy the parts, they buy in at trade and sell at retail, that's part of there profit

2011 will require the timing tools, technically if it's running okay, it can be done without, but you will have to make you own timing marks


a block of wood under the sump, jack to support the engine and a few sockets and extension bar,

I use a combination of 3/8 and 1/2" sockets along with ratchets, breakers bar, T handle and extension bars

It's not difficult, but it easy to get wrong, there's been several garages get it wrong on here

 

[AnthonyH]

Hi all, I went to a local garage today and got a quote for labour only cambelt and water pump, I already have the parts from shop4parts costing £66.86 with a auxiliary belt as well and £16 for coolant off ebay taking my cost to £82.86.

The garage I went to says its two and a half hours labour which with vat is £390 which will take my total to £472.86 including the parts I already bought. I have seen a mobile mechanic online charging £345 supplied and fitted. I am wondering if I made a mistake ordering the parts and whether to have a go myself. I have a council garage and time isn't an issue. Am I being overcharged and is it that hard diy if I follow a youtube tutorial.

All opinions welcome

They have real expensive labour. You can probably shop around and find someone cheaper.

I can do most car jobs slowly with help from the people on this forum and YouTube. I've not changed a timing belt yet, but I already know it'd take me 6-8 hours based on previous jobs of this difficulty.

Can you do this yourself? Yes, if you have the time, tools and patience.

If you have no experience don't do this. If you have some experience expect it to take a few days while you collect tools and make mistakes.

 

[spidermania]

Am I being overcharged.

All opinions welcome

Nope. (700-1000 USD in the states if you can even find an honest shop)
See comment below.
↓

If you have no experience don't do this.

 

[SPORTPACK50]

If you're anywhere near Norwich, try Italicar. I got my 100hp done there 2 years ago...£144 inc parts for belt, tensioner and water pump. The labour was so little because they said they'd done so many that it didn't take them very long.
Fiat specialist is the way to go.

 

[vexorg]

It depends on your personal experience. It's all just nut and bolts at the end of the day, take them off and put them back on, but there are many that struggle with these kind of simple tasks.

If completely inexperience then get someone else to do it, or at least show you how to do it.

 

[jrkitching]

It's not difficult, but it easy to get wrong

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on this.

Lots of folks manage to go wrong and get into difficulties with this procedure. They fall into two camps:

- the totally inexperienced, who will likely struggle to get everything fitted and tensioned correctly because they don't yet have the 'feel' for things mechanical

- those who've done it all before on other marques and treat it like just another cambelt job (it's more complicated than that)

Folks who have good car repair skills and take the time to understand the somewhat quirky nature of the replacement procedure will likely be just fine. The key is to know exactly what you need to do, and what it's advisable to mark up, before dismantling or loosening anything.

It's easier to replace a belt on an engine that's already correctly timed, but if you just remove everything without marking it up, you lose that advantage.

 

[koalar]

If you use timing tool you will have to also replace the cam cover gasket and o rings on the VVT engines

But if you use this method, you don't



Some things in the video are missing

You are supposed to set the tensioner to max and do two complete revolutions to set the belt teeth first, then set the proper tension and so on

Also it's over simplified, sometimes when you remove the engine mount bolts they don't line up with the chassis rail holes and you have to jack the engine up a bit, and so on, but you get the gist from the video

A garage shouldn't take 2.5H they should have done loads, it's not an uncommon engine used from 1993-2020 by Alfa, fiat, Ford in amongst others the Punto, panda, 500

I know they have business rates, electricity and so on, and your paying for there expertise but nearly £400

 

[koalar]

. The key is to know exactly what you need to do, and what it's advisable to mark up, before dismantling or loosening anything.

It's easier to replace a belt on an engine that's already correctly timed, but if you just remove everything without marking it up, you lose that advantage.

Correct

 

[varesecrazy]

Nope. (700-1000 USD in the states if you can even find an honest shop)
See comment below.
↓

An hour.. That is ridiculous..

 

[vexorg]

- those who've done it all before on other marques and treat it like just another cambelt job (it's more complicated than that)

It's really not more complicated than any other cam belt. It has been proven that locking it all and not undoing the cam bolt works successfully.

And there are may other cars that also need the cam adjusted (and also equally stupid way to design it).

 

[koalar]

An hour.. That is ridiculous..

Same as here depends where you live, who you ask

Online quote are usually to the high end but here's one

And there are plenty of back street garages in san francisco that charge less than $100 an hour for labour

 

[jrkitching]

It's really not more complicated than any other cam belt. It has been proven that locking it all and not undoing the cam bolt works successfully

If you put on all the locking tools and try to tension the belt without undoing the cam bolt, you won't be able to tension the belt properly and you'll almost certainly end up with a mistimed engine.

There have been literally dozens of threads here from folks with running problems after a belt change who've done precisely that.

You can tension the belt with the locking tools in and the cam bolt loosened, and you can tension the belt with the tools out, but you can't do both at the same time.

 

[vexorg]

You can tension the belt with the locking tools in and the cam bolt loosened, and you can tension the belt with the tools out, but you can't do both at the same time.

Yep, like many other cars, the belt wont go on with all the locking tools in place and you need to move something to make it work. In fact most belts I've done are like that, where you get to the point you are convinced it's the wrong belt.
Effectively this is Jock's tippex method, and as I would view it as it worked before, and works the same way after with everything in the same position.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

If you put on all the locking tools and try to tension the belt without undoing the cam bolt, you won't be able to tension the belt properly and you'll almost certainly end up with a mistimed engine.

There have been literally dozens of threads here from folks with running problems after a belt change who've done precisely that.

You can tension the belt with the locking tools in and the cam bolt loosened, and you can tension the belt with the tools out, but you can't do both at the same time.

That's it in a nutshell!

 

[pcb]

Many thanks for all the replies, if I were to do it I would use the locking tool on the crank and mark it up before removal however this morning my breathings got pretty laboured ( 68 ya with copd ) it always gets worse when the weather turns, anyway its booked in tomorrow even though I reckon I'm being overcharged £100, there's also a loud cracking noise on heavy breaking and reversing with full left hand lock on coming from passenger side wheel area, this garage replaced the struts last year so are looking at that, hope they don't charge me if its a strut, it certainly sound suspension related.

 

[jrkitching]

even though I reckon I'm being overcharged £100

It's better to be overcharged and have the job done right than taking the cheapest quote and ending up with running problems afterwards.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Many thanks for all the replies, if I were to do it I would use the locking tool on the crank and mark it up before removal however this morning my breathings got pretty laboured ( 68 ya with copd ) it always gets worse when the weather turns, anyway its booked in tomorrow even though I reckon I'm being overcharged £100, there's also a loud cracking noise on heavy breaking and reversing with full left hand lock on coming from passenger side wheel area, this garage replaced the struts last year so are looking at that, hope they don't charge me if its a strut, it certainly sound suspension related.

I feel for you man. I've got ten years on you so quite pleased at how much I can still do. It's difficult when you know you can do it but the body is letting you down. Coming to terms and admitting to yourself that the time has come to stand back is difficult but the right thing to do. I've given up trying to asses whether a labour charge is fair - seems to go up daily.

 

[koalar]

It's really not more complicated than any other cam belt. It has been proven that locking it all and not undoing the cam bolt works successfully.

And there are may other cars that also need the cam adjusted (and also equally stupid way to design it).

It's only a shallow T55 head

They normally take well over a wheel nut in torque, last one I did I struggled with a 19" breaker bar, which is going to be well over 200Nm to crack free

I avoid undoing them if I can

If the car was running fine before, it an unesseccery risk, especially if you don't have access to a decent impact wrench

 

[spidermania]

An hour.. That is ridiculous..

No, total job, parts and labor. I'm sure it can be found cheaper but this is what you generally see over here. Especially if you go to a new car dealership as they work strictly by the book, there is no bending or negotiation with them. And they generally will not allow you to bring your own parts.
I'm not sure some of you over in Europe truly realize how good you have it.

Let me give you an example how some of these shysters operate over here. Earlier this year before I set my sights on the spider I had a Dodge Grand Caravan and Stellantis owns them as well as FIAT and few more brands. We have a Dodge dealership in my area so I took the van in to have the auto trans pan replaced (dented and rusted) a new filter and refill with fluid. And I had a brake fluid flush. Brought my own parts and they were official Mopar parts that Stellantis owns as well. They looked the parts over like a Scotland Yard detective.

Did the job and it cost me around 1200 USD.
Fast forward a few months when I spot the spider and put it on hold pending an inspection of the van towards a trade in. The inspector says my transmission is slipping between 2nd and 3rd gear, it cost me 1400 USD towards my trade in allowance. That hurt because I ended up getting less for the van then I owe on it, ergo less of a down-payment towards the spider along with a higher interest rate.

Needless to say that dealership will not lay a hand on the spider. Coincidence you might say, not in this thieving country ..