Technical Panda Evo2 timing belt replacement.

[Razamamaz]

Hello, I am planning to replace the timing belt. I have a few questions. My car is a 2009 Fiat Panda. The engine number is 5073034. Based on the engine and cylinder head numbers, it appears to be the Evo2 version.

I plan to use locking tools to secure the crankshaft and camshaft. In this engine version, the notch for the key on the camshaft is likely much larger than the key on the camshaft pulley. Therefore, my plan is as follows: install the locking tools, loosen the tensioner, and remove the belt. Then, while holding the camshaft pulley, loosen it and rotate it fully to the right, with the locking tools still in place. I will then install the belt and tighten it to the maximum. After that, I will rotate the crankshaft twice, set the tensioner, and tighten the camshaft pulley bolt.

I started this thread because I saw in other discussions that loosening the camshaft pulley bolt is considered a mistake. I read posts suggesting that it’s better not to lock the camshaft (if you're sure the current timing is set correctly). Only the crankshaft should be locked. Mark the crankshaft pulley and camshaft pulley. Remove the belt and install the new one. Then tension the belt, and the camshaft pulley should move to the left. So, I loosen the tensioner, move the camshaft pulley to the right (back to the mark), and then tension it again. Best regards.

 

[koalar]

Yes EVO2

I'd not bother locking the camshaft, otherwise you will need to purchase a new valve cover gasket as well

Just lock the crankshaft

There's no timing marks on the camshaft pulley, just make your own, and on the crank pulley

Accurately mark the belt

Transfer marks to new belt

But the new belt on line up all the marks

Tighten the tensioner, and you are done

See if I can find a video

 

[Razamamaz]

Thank you for your response, and if you have a video, please share it. I read somewhere that with this method, after turning the crankshaft twice, you need to adjust the camshaft pulley. Best regards, Krzysztof.

 

[koalar]

Finding a video isn't easy most are over complicated




This looks okay but haven't played it all

 

[Razamamaz]

The video clarified things for me. Here, the replacement was done using marks. I will do the same, but I will lock the crankshaft. When tensioning the new belt, can the crankshaft lock remain in place? Should I first tighten it to the maximum, make two turns of the crankshaft, and then set the tensioner to its final position?
I hope I'm not being too bothersome with my questions.

 

[koalar]

Yes crankshaft can remain lock, there's only a problem fitting the belt if both cam and crank are locked at the same time

It a good idea to use the crank lock tool as this puts the pistons all halfway down the cylinders in a safe position, not strictly necessary

Yes two turns at maximum to settle the belt first, then set the tension correct

 

[Razamamaz]

Thank you for your response. If it turns out that oil is leaking from the camshaft seal and I need to replace it, I would also have to lock the camshaft pulley, remove it, and replace the seal. How should the timing belt be properly set in this case? Is it sufficient to mark the pulley and the casing before loosening the camshaft pulley, then, with the crankshaft and camshaft locked, loosen the camshaft pulley while holding it or using a 24 mm wrench on the camshaft? After replacing the seal, what should be done next? Install the pulley, align it with the mark, tighten it, remove the camshaft lock, and tension the belt. The lower lock would remain in place throughout.

Best regards and thank you for all the answers
.

 

[koalar]

Jobs changed in complexity now the pulley has to come off

The pulley not keyed

You will need to lock both cam and crank

Valve cover has to come off

You will need some new seals for the cover

Bottom of this page

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

 

[Razamamaz]

I’ve also read in some other threads that when the crankshaft locking tool is in place, it can be tricky to fit the timing belt. The advice was as follows: slightly rotate the camshaft pulley backward, meaning to the left. Then, fit the belt, tighten the tensioner, and the camshaft pulley should return to its position, aligning with the marks on the pulley and the engine (moving to the right).

But isn’t it supposed to be like this: with the crankshaft locking tool in place, and the camshaft pulley and engine marks aligned, once the tensioner is loosened, the camshaft pulley should naturally shift slightly backward? Then, when the belt is tightened, it returns to its proper position.

I know this is just theory, but I sometimes like to analyze these details out of curiosity. Best regards, and I hope the forum members still have patience for
me.

 

[Zardo]

In the manual, they make use of a belt tension meter to control the tension resonant frequency (should be 150 - 200 Hz). I found one on the internet. Those are quite costly. I wonder if it's possible to just "flip the belt" manually (engine off) like it was a huge guitar chord and record the resulting sound, then do a FFT spectrum analysis. Takes a lot more time, of course. Maybe I'm overthinking things

But guitar players know what I'm talking about.

Might also be useful to control the belt tension after so many miles.

 

[porta]

In the manual, they make use of a belt tension meter to control the tension resonant frequency (should be 150 - 200 Hz). I found one on the internet. Those are quite costly. I wonder if it's possible to just "flip the belt" manually (engine off) like it was a huge guitar chord and record the resulting sound, then do a FFT spectrum analysis. Takes a lot more time, of course. Maybe I'm overthinking things

But guitar players know what I'm talking about.

Might also be useful to control the belt tension after so many miles.

An old and new belt would definitely be different resonance…as for new for new, I doubt two are the same and yes, I would think that’s overthinking it

 

[koalar]

I’ve also read in some other threads that when the crankshaft locking tool is in place, it can be tricky to fit the timing belt. The advice was as follows: slightly rotate the camshaft pulley backward, meaning to the left. Then, fit the belt, tighten the tensioner, and the camshaft pulley should return to its position, aligning with the marks on the pulley and the engine (moving to the right).

But isn’t it supposed to be like this: with the crankshaft locking tool in place, and the camshaft pulley and engine marks aligned, once the tensioner is loosened, the camshaft pulley should naturally shift slightly backward? Then, when the belt is tightened, it returns to its proper position.

I know this is just theory, but I sometimes like to analyze these details out of curiosity. Best regards, and I hope the forum members still have patience for
me.

Incorrect
Let's see if I can find an old post save writing it out again

The right side has to be drum tight to fit the belt, there's not enough movement I the idler to fit the Belton the correct tooth

 

[koalar]

In the manual, they make use of a belt tension meter to control the tension resonant frequency (should be 150 - 200 Hz). I found one on the internet. Those are quite costly. I wonder if it's possible to just "flip the belt" manually (engine off) like it was a huge guitar chord and record the resulting sound, then do a FFT spectrum analysis. Takes a lot more time, of course. Maybe I'm overthinking things

But guitar players know what I'm talking about.

Might also be useful to control the belt tension after so many miles.

Not on an Evo 2

There's a gauge built into the the tensioner, making it simple, just align the marks and tighten

 

[koalar]

Here you go

Here how I do it, without undoing the very tight T55

2009 1.1 non starter | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Next project Got this as a non starter All fuses had been removed The ring round the ignition barrel was faulty and immobiliser didnt go off The knock sensor was faulty Oh and the timing looked to have jumped a few teeth Car turned over on the key with all these faults but didnt start but an...

www.fiatforum.com

But it's not need in you case


You can fit the belt with the pulley loose as it has to come off to do the camshaft oil seal

Then is timed with this little guy

There's just not enough slack to fit the belt on with everything locked up as the tensioner only moves a few mm before hitting part of the block

If you aren't taking the head or pulley off, just make your own marks as in post 4, took me quite awhile to do the first one, but once you have done a couple it's very easy and quick

 

[Zardo]

Not on an Evo 2

There's a gauge built into the the tensioner, making it simple, just align the marks and tighten

you're right, it states above: Engines until no. 2533527

 

[boguing]

In the manual, they make use of a belt tension meter to control the tension resonant frequency (should be 150 - 200 Hz). I found one on the internet. Those are quite costly. I wonder if it's possible to just "flip the belt" manually (engine off) like it was a huge guitar chord and record the resulting sound, then do a FFT spectrum analysis. Takes a lot more time, of course. Maybe I'm overthinking things

But guitar players know what I'm talking about.

Might also be useful to control the belt tension after so many miles.

Plenty of free 'phone apps that display frequency. I used Oscope.

Initially I was slightly sceptical, but in practice it's a doddle, and quick. All belts should be done this way!

 

[DaveMcT]

Lock the crank and TipEx mark the cam wheel and cam cover so you can see the correct alignment. Fit the new belt and tension using the special tool on the tensioner. You will see the TipEx marks are out by one tooth. Loosen the tensioner and refit the belt with the white marks out by one tooth. Tensioning the belt will pull them back into line. Remove the crank lock and box up the engine. Job done.

 

[Zardo]

Would it be possible to tip-ex the old belt and the timing-critical pulleys, remove the belt (without locking the crank or use of any special tool), superpose the new belt on the old belt, transfer the tip-ex marks from the old belt to the new one, align the new belt with the marks on the pulleys?

 

[koalar]

Would it be possible to tip-ex the old belt and the timing-critical pulleys, remove the belt (without locking the crank or use of any special tool), superpose the new belt on the old belt, transfer the tip-ex marks from the old belt to the new one, align the new belt with the marks on the pulleys?

Post 4

 

[DaveMcT]

Would it be possible to tip-ex the old belt and the timing-critical pulleys, remove the belt (without locking the crank or use of any special tool), superpose the new belt on the old belt, transfer the tip-ex marks from the old belt to the new one, align the new belt with the marks on the pulleys?

It's much easier (and safer for the engine) with the crank locked.