General Old School 1.4 style

[ahmett]

Traction control? That's what you right foot & other senses are for!

Tell that to a granny losing control on a wet road or an oil slick. We are talking about driving on public roads here, not on a circuit where if you crash and kill yourself, its your problem.

 

[Squadrone Rosso]

Tell that to a granny losing control on a wet road or an oil slick. We are talking about driving on public roads here, not on a circuit where if you crash and kill yourself, its your problem.

I think you're mistaking traction control for stability control as the former would be no use in the scenario you describe.

 

[loveshandbags]

I'll contribute to this thread with a post of equal value:

What a load of tripe. Subjective opinion - did anyone ask for it?

Since I contributed to Ahmett's thread I suppose my posts too were a 'load of tripe'. It might be useful to quote something since by 'sharing you opinion' 3 individuals have been implicated. 'Treat others the way you want to be treated'.

 

[ahmett]

I think you're mistaking traction control for stability control as the former would be no use in the scenario you describe.

I see your point but dont stability and traction control come together as part of each other and then you can only turn traction control off with the button while stability always stays on?


Funnily enough in the Lancia/Chrysler Ypsilon TA, ESP comes as standard

 

[bgunn]

I find it unsurprising that maxi said he agreed, but yes its a free world if you dont like what you read there is no reason to reply you can just ignore it.

But the fact is ahmett, you're just playing a pissing contest aren't you? Fine, you don't like the TA, we get that from the dozens of posts you've contributed to with the same subtext. I don't really see where you've assisted other people with their problems, or helped them make informed choices about the car they buy next.

So, actually, I'm perfectly entitled to my opinion that states I'm fed up of hearing it. Has this forum got an 'ignore' function? I think I might use it - as your post content doesn't really offer much to read.

Sorry and all that.

 

[bgunn]

Since I contributed to Ahmett's thread I suppose my posts too were a 'load of tripe'. It might be useful to quote something since by 'sharing you opinion' 3 individuals have been implicated. 'Treat others the way you want to be treated'.

I don't really see how what I've said is particularly offensive, but if you wish to feel that way, I apologise. My 'argument' (as such) isn't aimed at you at all.

 

[306maxi]

Tell that to a granny losing control on a wet road or an oil slick. We are talking about driving on public roads here, not on a circuit where if you crash and kill yourself, its your problem.

I'm sorry, but the 500 is a very benign handling car. ESP isn't going to do anything if there's diesel on the road anyway.

 

[deeyup]

Yes boss but the TA dies after 6 k while the 1.4 just slowly starts losing power before the rev limiter. Actually when i took the TA to 6k, it didnt let me go higher. Anyone can confirm this, maybe the ecu says no thank you? And the TA is worse than the 1.4 in brakes, no traction control and top end power yet it is the same price. But if you dont go above 30 mph in the town that comparison is irrelevant and for a town driver then sure the TA makes more sense. I am comparing the two cars here on a level field, meaning without the eurobankrupocracy meaning more tax for people who want to have fun.

This is why in the worlds most advanced and biggest economy you still have the 1.4, while in failed europe you have the twinair.

The twin air does indeed hit a brick wall revs wise at 6k. It also won't rev past 3k whilst stationary with your foot on the clutch. I presume both these measures are to protect the motor.
Peak power on the 1.4 is at 6k revs and torque a lot lower.
There really is not a lot of point in pushing it any further to the limiter, you'd do better to change up.

As for USA still having a 1.4, i'm pretty sure it's not the same engine as yours.
They are also the worlds biggest consumers of oil by far, getting them to downsize from their large SUVs' to a 1.4 must be a job in its self never mind offering a 875cc option. I would think that would be the real reason they don't offer it there?

 

[loveshandbags]

...As for USA still having a 1.4, i'm pretty sure it's not the same engine as yours.

Only real difference in the US & the Euro engine is the head in that it has variable timing (hence the name multi-air). TA is in a 'different league' since it is 'ground up' design. The variable timing of the US 1.4 gives it the economy but doesn't do much in the way of power.

I like the 1.4, but its been killed off for a reason...With regards to mpg, the honest John real mpg web site http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/RealMpg/Results?manufacturer=fiat
suggests from real world user entered data that the TA achieves 20% better mpg than the 1.4 ...

What's killing off the 1.4 is the way the emissions is being calculated. It's unlikely that the TA will be affected but a 520D will probably be affected in the budgets going forward when they 'factor in' engine size (that's what's planned for here).

From a previous posting some very interesting mpg figures for the US 500 1.4. If they're 'real' it makes the MA 1.4 a viable option. On the AF the MiTos equiped with this MA engine are not getting these mpg returns but then it has a heavier body. On one MiTo TA 'test drive' someone complained about getting 17.9mpg.

US 51.8 mpg European 62.2 mpg
US 43.8 mpg European 52.6 mpg

 

[poggy]

You guys like to argue a lot, seems a lot of the same people pop up every time to have a dig when someone posts something they either think has already be answered before (probably a long time ago before the person joined) or just because they think it's not in their opinion worth discussing.

It's a shame you don't meet up as I am sure if you had a chance to meet face to face you would get on better.

 

[poggy]

I'm sorry, but the 500 is a very benign handling car. ESP isn't going to do anything if there's diesel on the road anyway.

Try a driving skid pan course with it on and off and you will change your mind. As the grip changes as a result of the diesel the ESP is able to improve control. It won't give you grip but it will improve control.

A car is only benign when it has full grip, the minute that goes it's a different picture and the response can be the exact opposite.

 

[deeyup]

Only real difference in the US & the Euro engine is the head in that it has variable timing (hence the name multi-air). TA is in a 'different league' since it is 'ground up' design. The variable timing of the US 1.4 gives it the economy but doesn't do much in the way of power.

and the fact that the valves are operated by an electric/hydraulic mechanism, hence a different motor.

What's killing off the 1.4 is the way the emissions is being calculated. It's unlikely that the TA will be affected but a 520D will probably be affected in the budgets going forward when they 'factor in' engine size (that's what's planned for here).

Exactly, it emissions.

On one MiTo TA 'test drive' someone complained about getting 17.9mpg.

That would not be difficult to do. I could take my 500 out for a "test drive" and achieve similar, yet during my average daily driving now I'm nudging 55mpg

 

[ahmett]

I'm sorry, but the 500 is a very benign handling car. ESP isn't going to do anything if there's diesel on the road anyway.

I have had several times when the ESP saved me when i was driving on a dry road that had suddenly become wet due to sewer leaks and washing the gardens on the side of the road. Maybe you dont push your car hard enough.

 

[RobW]

You guys like to argue a lot, seems a lot of the same people pop up every time to have a dig when someone posts something they either think has already be answered before (probably a long time ago before the person joined) or just because they think it's not in their opinion worth discussing.

It's a shame you don't meet up as I am sure if you had a chance to meet face to face you would get on better.

very true

Maxi came to a Clubcento meet once and he is actually a good bloke, you can't control how people (that don't know you) perceive you but if you are overly fighty or blunt in your posts people will start to think you are a bit of a cock...
this is why moderators are needed on forums

 

[Murano16v]

I have had several times when the ESP saved me when i was driving on a dry road that had suddenly become wet due to sewer leaks and washing the gardens on the side of the road. Maybe you dont push your car hard enough.

You need ESP after people have been washing their gardens

 

[loveshandbags]

and the fact that the valves are operated by an electric/hydraulic mechanism, hence a different motor.

Exactly, it emissions.

That would not be difficult to do. I could take my 500 out for a "test drive" and achieve similar, yet during my average daily driving now I'm nudging 55mpg

Is that the best you can do ?

You guys like to argue a lot, seems a lot of the same people pop up every time to have a dig when someone posts something they either think has already be answered before (probably a long time ago before the person joined) or just because they think it's not in their opinion worth discussing.

It's a shame you don't meet up as I am sure if you had a chance to meet face to face you would get on better.

1. Well for a start I'm based in a different country.
2. Referring back to a post that I made on a previous discussion about a year ago to 'add' to a current day discussion is the 'norm' in a lot of forums and disspell a feeling a deja vu.
3. Presenting facts is not having a 'dig at someone'.

I'm done with this thread and signing off on it.

 

[poggy]

I wasn't making reference to you, there is no problem with a debate and making counter suggestions. I was more thinking of the one line replies which are just aimed at putting a poster down just because they don't like the topic.

 

[ahmett]

You need ESP after people have been washing their gardens

Well interestingly i was driving on a dry road with low grip as the asphalt was of 'glass' quality. Suddenly on a light bend, the road happened to be wet as inbetween lanes there is greenery with trees and the municipality was washing the trees which leaked to the roads and made the road surface wet. Add to the fact that it was dark so i didnt notice. So anyway i take the corner at my usual speed not taking into account the water on the road and my car slides sideways and fishtails from side to side for about 2 turns. The esp was going mad. I am not saying i would have crashed but esp slowed me down and made the car much easier to control. In this case i was very happy to have ESP.

 

[306maxi]

That would not be difficult to do. I could take my 500 out for a "test drive" and achieve similar, yet during my average daily driving now I'm nudging 55mpg

yeah, I took my 500 out for a drive over the moors a few weeks ago and kept up with a Focus ST who admittedly was driving very girlishly around the bends. I worked out that I had done about 15 mpg.

 

[306maxi]

Well interestingly i was driving on a dry road with low grip as the asphalt was of 'glass' quality. Suddenly on a light bend, the road happened to be wet as inbetween lanes there is greenery with trees and the municipality was washing the trees which leaked to the roads and made the road surface wet. Add to the fact that it was dark so i didnt notice. So anyway i take the corner at my usual speed not taking into account the water on the road and my car slides sideways and fishtails from side to side for about 2 turns. The esp was going mad. I am not saying i would have crashed but esp slowed me down and made the car much easier to control. In this case i was very happy to have ESP.

Perhaps it's time to drive within your limits and the sensible limits of the road? I push the limits of my car, I have a couple of videos of me driving quite quickly, but for obvious reasons I'm not going to post them on a public forum. But lets just say I drive quickly enough