Tuning Tuning a 1.2l fiat 500, "ghetto style".

[Greasytrucker]

The time you’ve declared all your mods and insurance premiums go up be cheaper to buy a more powerful standard car surely?

I presume it’s a “ghetto style” policy

 

[AnthonyH]

It begins at 69 hp, Im aiming for 100 hp minimum. And i will get there by hook or by crook!

I have 2 Grande Puntos and an EVO.

This bad boy is one of my GPs. Watch and weep!!!

 

[AnthonyH]

Still PMSL at the second race LOL

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Someone once said "You won't find the answers to life's problems in a bottle..."

They were wrong...



Ralf S.View attachment 440121

Ooh!! Now that looks like a fine plan!!

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Still PMSL at the second race LOL

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

There is scope to port the head, however porting is reliant on a good optimized intake system and a good exhaust set up from the manifold backwards.

The other issue with these engines is a very long intake manifold after the throttle body which is often made from plastic or at least half the manifold is plastic, therefore you cannot port a plastic manifold and therefore if the intake manifold is causing a restriction, then porting, bigger throttle body or new air filters may all be pretty pointless.

More air flow may make the engine feel more responsive, but it doesn't necessarily make the car any faster as already pointed out of the throttle body is fully open then there is a limit to the amount of air than can flow through that aperture.

So, in theory, if i could bypass the throttle body at high vacuum situations, and port the head a bit, and bypass the cat in high pressure situations, it might go a bit faster!?!

This ghetto tuning plan might just work bro!!

I just need an adjustable vacuum + pressure relief valves and some hose work, a filter, and a bit of tubing.. and i can use my die grinder to grind the ports out,

Its gonna be interesting to see if it works!

I just gotta find the correct rated valves and i am in theory, potentially on to a winner!

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Well possibly but given the original problem statement it's interesting to pursue the thought experiment!

Interesting to reflect that in 1979 the Lampredi SOHC 8v engine, with a carb, inline valves and a non-crossflow head, developed 78bhp from 1301cc. I'm sure that engine could be tickled up a bit....

The main problem is that my 500 is perpetually loaded with enough tools to change its own clutch, and any other clutch, at the side of the road..
The weight makes it slow. And i want to make up for it by messing around with it.

The plan is going well, but my next steps must be chosen very carefully..

My ideas are mildly dubious to say the least

 

[Greasytrucker]

Loving this thread. Sometimes it’s just about doing something for the hell of it! Years ago a friend of mine decided to put a turbo off an MG metro on a bog standard classic Mini 850. This involves quite a bit of work as part of the firewall needs removing and replacing with a box to make the turbo fit. I lose count of the amount of people that said “it won’t work” and “You’ll blow the head off” but we researched compression ratios etc and on paper it worked. Guess what, it did work! It wasn’t a rocket ship by any means but it’s just about going against the odds and doing it for a laugh sometimes! Hope it works mate

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Most folks here are too sensible to knowingly commit insurance fraud.

I asked them They said - "we dont cover any modifications in our insurance plan, so your exhaust and intake would not be covered by your insurance, but the rest of the car would still be covered by your insurance"

I took that as, - "its fine to modify your car, but if your exk

Most folks here are too sensible to knowingly commit insurance fraud.

Its not fraud. They said it cant be made faster with that engine, so as long as i dont change the capacity of the engine its ok..

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Loving this thread. Sometimes it’s just about doing something for the hell of it! Years ago a friend of mine decided to put a turbo off an MG metro on a bog standard classic Mini 850. This involves quite a bit of work as part of the firewall needs removing and replacing with a box to make the turbo fit. I lose count of the amount of people that said “it won’t work” and “You’ll blow the head off” but we researched compression ratios etc and on paper it worked. Guess what, it did work! It wasn’t a rocket ship by any means but it’s just about going against the odds and doing it for a laugh sometimes! Hope it works mate

People are ALWAYS telling me it wont work.. it just makes me smile more when it does work!

The facebook fiat group said the intake mods wont work, it did!
They said the exhaust wont work, it did..

The same with the ecotek cb-26p valve,
And that worked wonders!!

Its all about ignoring the nay sayers and just doing it.. i have got evil plans gor this one, and i WILL make it faster!

 

[AndyRKett]

So, in theory, if i could bypass the throttle body at high vacuum situations, and port the head a bit, and bypass the cat in high pressure situations, it might go a bit faster!?!

This ghetto tuning plan might just work bro!!

I just need an adjustable vacuum + pressure relief valves and some hose work, a filter, and a bit of tubing.. and i can use my die grinder to grind the ports out,

Its gonna be interesting to see if it works!

I just gotta find the correct rated valves and i am in theory, potentially on to a winner!

this engine is extremely dependent on the scavenging effects of the pressure wave during exhaust, if you change the exhaust too much you might loose that effect and therefore get less air into the engine and make less power.

The intake as well is very long for a reason on these cars, just opening that up to the air at full throttle might again cost you power.

Also if there is no vacuum as you’ve opened some make shift set of secondary’s then there is no vacuum to open said secondary’s so it becomes a bit of a paradox l.

These ideas are all good theories, there is a lot more to engine tuning than just making the intake and exhaust bigger.

You can for example easily buy 4 into 1 exhaust manifolds that are tuned to the needs of the engine fairly cheaply, and a performance cat is also fairly cheap, the combination of these two things would be far more practical and yield much better results than what you have planned.

Intake wise you would again get far better results from installing a larger diameter TB than just opening some huge valve at full revs. As stated before, these engines are extremely well optimised by Fiat which is why you’ll struggle to see any significant power increase, the only real way you’re going to see anything like 100hp is to go 16 valves.

And after all is said and done, some mum in her SUV is still going to leave you for dust at the lights or overtake you at speed on the motorway

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

With mine I'm not looking for power gains, just a very mild but noticeable improvement that's all & making it breathe a little better as I'm thinking that where the problems are, mainly bottom end of the rev range upto 2,500 rpm as I've noticed under them revs is where it's worse, over 2,500 rpm it's fine, I've already installed a BMC filter element in the standard housing which has made a slight improvement but I thought of something else as well, the single silencer exhaust system itself is restrictive as from personal experience when I daily drove Classic Mini's mine had a standard single box exhaust just like the Panda's & 500's, to which I always found restrictive, I used to change them for another standard system but one with both a centre box & back box, although there were no power gains you could feel it wasn't so restricted as with a single box & drove better, so when I change the system on the Panda when it's past it, I was always planning a stainless system to standard spec as it's only a bit more money on the Panda than off the shelf pattern parts, I'll get one made up with a small centre box as well as a back box & it should make it feel a bit less restricted as it always worked with Mini's

Just a straight through centre box,
on its own sounds lovely though bro

I have 2 Grande Puntos and an EVO.

This bad boy is one of my GPs. Watch and weep!!!

 

[AndyRKett]

just another point

I asked them They said - "we don't cover any modifications in our insurance plan, so your exhaust and intake would not be covered by your insurance, but the rest of the car would still be covered by your insurance"

I think that this has been skewed somewhat.

"We don't cover any modifications in our insurance plan" would generally mean we do not cover cars that have been modified. A modification could be seen as sticking a bumper sticker on the back, or aftermarket parking sensors, and yeah an insurance company might turn a blind eye to that, but should the car get damaged in an accident they are not going to refit your parking sensors when they put a standard back bumper back on.

When it comes to engine modifications which change the performance of the car, makes the car faster or changes the handling of the vehicle. Or if you fit something that makes the car more attractive to thieves such as fitting graphics all down the side and putting massive wheels on it.

Then the insurance company are in their right and often will cancel your policy there and then, and worst still you'll still be liable to pay the total amount.

The brakes, suspension and potentially electrical systems such as ESP will not be designed or programed for the higher power levels, making the car more likely to get into an accident, it could complicate repairs, it can make the car more attractive to thieves or vandalism

 

[varesecrazy]

Having been caught up in a poor situation with Car Insurance

It soon get expensive, (and that was without any Injury Lawyers chasing me..)

 

[jrkitching]

Having been caught up in a poor situation with Car Insurance

It soon get expensive, (and that was without any Injury Lawyers chasing me..)

Fortunately this hasn't happened to me personally, but I know of others who've been caught out in this way. I was surprised by how quickly things can turn nasty, particularly if the police become involved.

The insurance company will generally always pay a third party claim, but will likely then seek to recover what they have paid out, plus costs.

If the police should become involved, then it gets a lot worse very quickly. Even if the car is shown as being insured on the MID database, if they suspect anything is not as it should be, they will call the insurer from the roadside, and if the insurer says that whatever the police have found has invalidated the insurance, they'll impound the car on the spot and you'll be making your own way home.

Unless it's an incident in which someone has been killed or seriously injured, in which case they'll give you a lift, but it won't be to your home.

Worst case is you get charged with causing death whilst uninsured, when a custodial sentence is pretty much assured, even if you weren't driving carelessly at the time.

In my opinion, it's just not worth the risk.

If you have significantly modified your car, I'd suggest that going through a specialist broker is a better option than using a comparison website. They'll know which companies to seek a quote from, and which to avoid.

But in the final analysis, what you choose to declare is a matter between you and your insurance company.

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

just another point


I think that this has been skewed somewhat.

"We don't cover any modifications in our insurance plan" would generally mean we do not cover cars that have been modified. A modification could be seen as sticking a bumper sticker on the back, or aftermarket parking sensors, and yeah an insurance company might turn a blind eye to that, but should the car get damaged in an accident they are not going to refit your parking sensors when they put a standard back bumper back on.

When it comes to engine modifications which change the performance of the car, makes the car faster or changes the handling of the vehicle. Or if you fit something that makes the car more attractive to thieves such as fitting graphics all down the side and putting massive wheels on it.

Then the insurance company are in their right and often will cancel your policy there and then, and worst still you'll still be liable to pay the total amount.

The brakes, suspension and potentially electrical systems such as ESP will not be designed or programed for the higher power levels, making the car more likely to get into an accident, it could complicate repairs, it can make the car more attractive to thieves or vandalism

****! Seriously?
The guy seemed very chill about it all.
He made it seem like i have nothing to worry about (unless i was expecting them to repair the exhaust and intake that i have put on)

I have also put stickers on it, and i was planning on getting abarth wheels for it.

Man, im gonna have to ring them up. Because if what you say is true, that info might have just fu*ked my whole insurance plan up

Because this one now feels much quicker and is a lot more attractive to thieves.
(Especially the stupid ones who believe the limited edition stickers )

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

With mine I'm not looking for power gains, just a very mild but noticeable improvement that's all & making it breathe a little better as I'm thinking that where the problems are, mainly bottom end of the rev range upto 2,500 rpm as I've noticed under them revs is where it's worse, over 2,500 rpm it's fine, I've already installed a BMC filter element in the standard housing which has made a slight improvement but I thought of something else as well, the single silencer exhaust system itself is restrictive as from personal experience when I daily drove Classic Mini's mine had a standard single box exhaust just like the Panda's & 500's, to which I always found restrictive, I used to change them for another standard system but one with both a centre box & back box, although there were no power gains you could feel it wasn't so restricted as with a single box & drove better, so when I change the system on the Panda when it's past it, I was always planning a stainless system to standard spec as it's only a bit more money on the Panda than off the shelf pattern parts, I'll get one made up with a small centre box as well as a back box & it should make it feel a bit less restricted as it always worked with Mini's

I think its better without the back box,
You can hear when to change gear,
And its safer because people hear you coming, and it stops them walking out in front of you..
It used to happen often when it was silent on our estate. Now its a bit louder, it dont happn anymore..

This is a link to a video of my setup on my old tiktok account,
you might have to un-mute it though..
Its better this way in my opinion, and i can tell you now, even if the horsepower is the same, it feels loads faster, and sounds beautiful..

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

Fortunately this hasn't happened to me personally, but I know of others who've been caught out in this way. I was surprised by how quickly things can turn nasty, particularly if the police become involved.

The insurance company will generally always pay a third party claim, but will likely then seek to recover what they have paid out, plus costs.

If the police should become involved, then it gets a lot worse very quickly. Even if the car is shown as being insured on the MID database, if they suspect anything is not as it should be, they will call the insurer from the roadside, and if the insurer says that whatever the police have found has invalidated the insurance, they'll impound the car on the spot and you'll be making your own way home.

Unless it's an incident in which someone has been killed or seriously injured, in which case they'll give you a lift, but it won't be to your home.

Worst case is you get charged with causing death whilst uninsured, when a custodial sentence is pretty much assured, even if you weren't driving carelessly at the time.

In my opinion, it's just not worth the risk.

If you have significantly modified your car, I'd suggest that going through a specialist broker is a better option than using a comparison website. They'll know which companies to seek a quote from, and which to avoid.

But in the final analysis, what you choose to declare is a matter between you and your insurance company.

Im starting to get worried now,
The way i understood it was that as long as i didn't modify the engine itself i would be ok. So i have only been messing with the intake and exhaust.. Most people have basically told me it wont make it any faster, but it does feel faster..

As far as im concerned, the intake and exhaust bolt on to the engine, but are not parts of the engine itself, and therefore they dont count as engine modifications.if you mess with them.

Im only counting everything from the throttle plate/ intake manifold, to the cat exit as actual "engine" and i have not yet modified anything between either of those parts, but im not so sure now.

 

[TurleysIndependantTuningS]

I presume it’s a “ghetto style” policy

Basically, the way i was looking at it was like this, they say i cant modify the "engine"
To me, that is, anything from the throttle plate to the cat exit is classed as part of the engine..
The exhaust, and intake/air filter are attached to these parts, however, they are clearly not part of the engine.

For example, you could run the car with no air filter at all, and although foolish, it would be both faster, and still perfectly legal. Because it is an ancillary part, not an actual part of the engine.

This has always been my understanding of the situation and i have never had a problem with any of the cars i have Modified..
and as long as it passes an mot it is legally ok.

Do you believe my understanding of the situation to be incorrect??

 

[AndyRKett]

Will car modifications affect my insurance? | AA Insurance

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