Technical New, old stock engine

[mtimm]

I have located a "new" 1.2 500 engine.
But after getting additional information on it i have some concerns.

Does anyone know if this engine is suitable for a 2010 500?

and the date of 2005 has me a bit worried that there could be age related issues.
corrosion in the bores is easy to check but could valve stem seals be a concern?
is there other things I should be concerned about/ check?
or is it simply a complete no?

thanks

 

[varesecrazy]

I have located a "new" 1.2 500 engine.
But after getting additional information on it i have some concerns.

Does anyone know if this engine is suitable for a 2010 500?

and the date of 2005 has me a bit worried that there could be age related issues.
corrosion in the bores is easy to check but could valve stem seals be a concern?
is there other things I should be concerned about/ check?
or is it simply a complete no?View attachment 425832View attachment 425833View attachment 425834

thanks

2005 isnt a 69bhp engine..
( 500 was only the VVT variant with 69 started in 2007)

Its the old punto and panda motor with 60bhp

 

[mtimm]

2005 isnt a 69bhp engine..
( 500 was only the VVT variant with 69 started in 2007)

Its the old punto and panda motor with 60bhp

Would this make it vvt

 

[varesecrazy]

View attachment 425840
Would this make it vvt

Hi again

It may well be.. from a panda presumably

It does look pretty clean doesnt it

But price will mean everything..

As that surface rust means it will be corroded everywhere.. sump is probably fine.. but the timing kit and waterpump want changing at this point


Does it have both mainfolds attached?



Ive had lots of FIATs.. done few headgaskets..etc

But I have only recently started with VVT..

So you are probably better asking in the TECH section.. tagging 500..
Posting a new thread

'Will this fit?'... listing the 500's and motors details


Somebody like @koalar may well know lots

Good luck

 

[portland_bill]

That is certainly a VVT pulley.
Are you sure its a 1.2? The top pic says 1368 8v, which suggests it might be a 1.4. Was there a 1.4 8v with VVT?
Bottom pic says 14Idea.
Can you get to the stamped engine number?

Edit:
Wikipedia says the Idea had a 1.4 8v for Brazil only, Europe only got the 16v. Is this why this engine is available, someone ordered a wrong one?
Grande Punto also used a 1.4 8v, but I've still no idea if either had VVT.

 

[koalar]

Yes its VVT

The cylinder head 55195018 is the later Panda, punto and 500,
Around 2008 on the 500

I would check the engine number it's on the main cylinder block front left just above the exhaust manifold

I would check the positions of the cam and crank sensors

If those three bits are the same there's a good chance it will work but I can't be certain

I know very little about the 500

I don't know what 22C means or why it has an earlier date code

Sorry

 

[mtimm]

It does look pretty clean doesnt it

But price will mean everything..

it is spotless

Price is €850

As that surface rust means it will be corroded everywhere.. sump is probably fine.. but the timing kit and waterpump want changing at this point

I would be concerned about the valve stem seals

Does it have both mainfolds attached?

No manifolds, pretty much bare engine with flywheel and clutch

So you are probably better asking in the TECH section.. tagging 500..
Posting a new thread

'Will this fit?'... listing the 500's and motors details


Somebody like @koalar may well know lots

Good luck

Thank you, I will do that

 

[mtimm]

I don't know what 22C means or why it has an earlier date code

Thank you.
the cam pulley has 2007 on it, so I am assuming now the sticker with the earlier date code might be just a component sticker on the timing belt cover

Yes its VVT

The cylinder head 55195018 is the later Panda, punto and 500,
Around 2008 on the 500

I would check the engine number it's on the main cylinder block front left just above the exhaust manifold

I would check the positions of the cam and crank sensors

If those three bits are the same there's a good chance it will work but I can't be certain

once I get my engine out it will be easier to compare it to the photos I have.

I've requested the engine number from the seller so hopefully that will clear things up

 

[porta]

That is certainly a VVT pulley.
Are you sure its a 1.2? The top pic says 1368 8v, which suggests it might be a 1.4. Was there a 1.4 8v with VVT?
Bottom pic says 14Idea.
Can you get to the stamped engine number?

Edit:
Wikipedia says the Idea had a 1.4 8v for Brazil only, Europe only got the 16v. Is this why this engine is available, someone ordered a wrong one?
Grande Punto also used a 1.4 8v, but I've still no idea if either had VVT.

It’s definitely not a 1.2, the giveaway is that it actually says ‘1368’ which is the 1.4 8v

 

[koalar]

Good spot @porta and @portland_bill

 

[porta]

Good spot @porta

Thanks, I like to read everything on the pictures before I comment as I’ve been caught out myself before…once posted, on a military site, about 8V (valves) wehn the discussion was V8, and should have known better that the Europeans transpose that, especially as Fiat had the ‘Otto Vu’

 

[varesecrazy]

I THINK the 1.4 has a specific feature the 1242 doesnt..
(Extra hose on the coolant thermostat..?)

But somebody on here will know for sure

 

[porta]

Back to the premise of the OP, if the engine is essentially the same, just larger internally, the mountings all in the same place, the manifolds too, would the ecu etc just read it as the same…I’m guessing some jiggery-pokerry on fuel delivery…but doesn’t seem insurmountable…even with the electrickery, or am I still stuck in the seventies and eighties wehn the 13/1400-1600-1800-2000 twin cams and the 1100/1300/1500 could all be messed about with with the same ancillaries?!?

 

[mtimm]

It’s definitely not a 1.2, the giveaway is that it actually says ‘1368’ which is the 1.4 8v
View attachment 425861

I have requested the engine number to confirm this.
It is advertised as a 1.2 by someone who should know, looks like I need a plan b now

 

[varesecrazy]

Reality check..

This motor is @£800 and needs work..
Maybe head.off inspection and new timing kit

These 1242 for the 500 seem to be @£250 from writeoffs

You will spend the same on timing kit.. add 1 sump pan

Your 500 isnt likely to wear out a 2nd motor..another 60+ thousand miles


Or.. just fit a new head to yours..

Choices

 

[mtimm]

Back to the premise of the OP, if the engine is essentially the same, just larger internally, the mountings all in the same place, the manifolds too, would the ecu etc just read it as the same…I’m guessing some jiggery-pokerry on fuel delivery…but doesn’t seem insurmountable…even with the electrickery, or am I still stuck in the seventies and eighties wehn the 13/1400-1600-1800-2000 twin cams and the 1100/1300/1500 could all be messed about with with the same ancillaries?!?

its not insurmountable (the right person and software can achieve wondrous things) but thats not a road I particularly want to go down at the moment. if it was my own car and 20 years ago I'd probably be trying it bore it out more before I fitted it .
But it being my wifes/daughters car and dealing with insurance companies I just want an easy life

 

[porta]

I have requested the engine number to confirm this.
It is advertised as a 1.2 by someone who should know, looks like I need a plan b now

I know your pain, had an argument over bits for a Case backhoe/Loader and the ‘parts’ person insisted it was a JCB (I took along pictures as it had the plate, model engine etc etc an 850T extradig). He couldn’t understand that JCB is a trade name like hoover or durex, so much for ‘product knowledge’

 

[porta]

its not insurmountable (the right person and software can achieve wondrous things) but thats not a road I particularly want to go down at the moment. if it was my own car and 20 years ago I'd probably be trying it bore it out more before I fitted it .
But it being my wifes/daughters car and dealing with insurance companies I just want an easy life

Buy a spares/repair or scrapper car

 

[koalar]

Back to the premise of the OP, if the engine is essentially the same, just larger internally, the mountings all in the same place, the manifolds too, would the ecu etc just read it as the same…I’m guessing some jiggery-pokerry on fuel delivery…but doesn’t seem insurmountable…even with the electrickery, or am I still stuck in the seventies and eighties wehn the 13/1400-1600-1800-2000 twin cams and the 1100/1300/1500 could all be messed about with with the same ancillaries?!?

Usally more trouble than its worth

Take the 1.2 panda engine

Square oil filler 14mm spark plugs
Square oil filler 12mm spark plugs
Round filler non vvt
Round filler vvt
4x4 of various euro specs


There not easy swaps, pulley don't line up, cam sensors look the same but wired differenly, 4x4 has different camshafts, valve timing is different, water pumps different,


Both mechanicaly, and electronicly it is normally very difficult,

Unlike the days of carbs and single point injection or you work requlary on car electronics it would be better finding the correct engine in the first place

 

[porta]

Usally more trouble than its worth

Take the 1.2 panda engine

Square oil filler 14mm spark plugs
Square oil filler 12mm spark plugs
Round filler non vvt
Round filler vvt
4x4 of various euro specs


There not easy swaps, pulley don't line up, cam sensors look the same but wired differenly, 4x4 has different camshafts, valve timing is different, water pumps different,


Both mechanicaly, and electronicly it is normally very difficult,

Unlike the days of carbs and single point injection or you work requlary on car electronics it would be better finding the correct engine in the first place

Never liked the SPI, not a great advance from carbs, initially…
My 128 3p had Weber twin twin carbs and manifold from a modified 1500 delta that got traded in (and was as rough as a badgers arse) after my own single twin carb gave up the ghost