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Technical New clutch - what else should i replace?

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Technical New clutch - what else should i replace?

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Mickit

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Hi guys!

Just bought myself a 2009 Fiat Panda 1.2 Dynamic ECO with 160.000 km.

Well knowing the clutch might need replacing, since the pedal is hard-ish to press, and the clutch only engages when the pedal is all the way to the floor.

So im buying a new clutch kit. What else should I replace while doing the job? Parts are cheap, so might as well do everything that makes sense while having the gearbox off.

Hope you can give some good advice :)

Best Micki
 
Clutch cable will have suffered with a stiff clutch, and might be ready to break.
The release fork in the clutch housing pivots in two bushes. They wear, and are easy to replace.
Check for any signs of oil leaking from the rear of the engine, (rare), or the front of the gearbox (occasional). The gearbox seal may require some dismantling if the seal cannot be replaced from outside, but don't ignore any leak, as it will contaminate the clutch.
The driveshaft seals are easy with the gearbox out. The right hand one sits above the exhaust and gently cooks, hardening it. The exhaust gets in the way when trying to replace the seal with the gearbox in the car.
Oil sometimes leaks from where the gearchange mechanism fits onto the top of the gearbox.
 
@portland_bill has coved it all well

I would also try wiggling the input shaft. There should be no side to side play unless the bearing is worn


The flywheel has a wear indicator. Worth checking there’s enough material left.

Watch the size of clutch you buy. 2009 was the crossover year here in the UK. I am unsure how to tell 100% before dismantling and even if the rest of the world is the same
 
Last edited:
The input shaft bearing might well be OK, but the oil seal is likely to be hard as nails. Replace that (if not the bearing as well), as a leaking seal will trash the new clutch).

The open ended bolt holes lead to corrosion jamming the threads. A good soaking with a searching oil (ACF-50 is good) will help to loosen the grip of aluminium oxide against the last few turns of thread.

I bought my clutch and oil seal from Shop 4 Parts. They needed the VIN or number plate to ensure the correct parts were sent. Prices are OK too.

While you are doing it, replace the output shafts' oil seals and the gear shifter seal. It's much easier with gearbox outside the car.
 
Mickit said:
Thank you so much for the tips! I will go hunt for parts.

Is there any way to tell what clutch i need without, taking out the one thats in? I need to order parts in advance..
Click to expand...
Sorry I am not sure in fact half of the eBay listings are either wrong or misleading

Mine was cut and dried by 2011 all 1.2 use the large clutch here in the UK


I know by march 2009 at least the 4x4 was using the larger clutch here in the UK



I have been caught out too many time where different parts could be fitted. I nearly always take the old parts out first. You can see exactly all the parts required and order the correct ones all at the same time. Yes you loose a day but it’s not wasted. Clean everything up including you tool make assembly more pleasant

You will need some fresh gear oil by the way
 
Im buying parts from Autodoc, since they have most parts for delivery in Denmark.

Allright so to sum up the parts im looking for:

- Clutch kit
- Clutch cable
- Slavecylinder
- 2 Bushings for release fork
- Gearbox seal (Need to find part)
- 2 Driveshaft seals (Need to find part)
- 2 Driveshaft bearings (Need to find part)
- Outputshafts oil seal (Need to find part)
- Gear shifter seal (will look for those, thanks Dave!)

I will buy everything beforehand, since i can easily return, if i dont need it.

I dont find ePER to be the easiest place to look for partnumbers..
 
Mickit said:
Im buying parts from Autodoc, since they have most parts for delivery in Denmark.

Allright so to sum up the parts im looking for:

- Clutch kit
Click to expand...
Yes 3 part
Mickit said:
- Clutch cable
- Slavecylinder
Click to expand...
Is yours cable or hydraulic

Mickit said:
- 2 Bushings for release fork
Click to expand...
Rare even badly worn they don’t cause any problems. However that’s here in the UK with the hydraulic system
Mickit said:
- Gearbox seal (Need to find part)
- 2 Driveshaft seals (Need to find part)
- 2 Driveshaft bearings (Need to find part)
- Outputshafts oil seal (Need to find part)
Click to expand...
2x differential (diff) and 1x input shaft all 3 are different
Mickit said:
- Gear shifter seal (will look for those, thanks Dave!)
Click to expand...
If it’s not leaking it’s not worth doing in my opinion. It’s pretty easy to do from the top as and when required

If you do change you will also need some gasket seal.
Mickit said:
I will buy everything beforehand, since i can easily return, if i dont need it.

I dont find ePER to be the easiest place to look for partnumbers..
Click to expand...
Online ePer is okay. On earlier pandas 05 say but doesn’t cover later changed

You will also need some gear oil
 
koalar said:
Yes 3 part

Is yours cable or hydraulic


Rare even badly worn they don’t cause any problems. However that’s here in the UK with the hydraulic system

2x differential (diff) and 1x input shaft all 3 are different

If it’s not leaking it’s not worth doing in my opinion. It’s pretty easy to do from the top as and when required

If you do change you will also need some gasket seal.

Online ePer is okay. On earlier pandas 05 say but doesn’t cover later changed

You will also need some gear oil
Click to expand...
Tbh im not sure if its cable or hydraulic. Maybe i should check that first!

I guess its visible from the top, if i look down behind the battery?
 
The clutch shifter seal, roll pin and clip cost about £12 the lot. It's easy enough to do in the car but the seal will be old and hardened and the roll pins are known to break. Just do it while it's easily accessed. So much less hassle.

Input shaft seal will be hardened, I think they should be considered a service part along with the clutch. Sadly, Fiat did not make replacement as easy as they should have. At least that's my experience.

Drive shaft seals can be done from under the car, but the job is easier with the box on a bench. Check the bearings while in there.

Clutch slave and master cylinders are only needed if you have a hydraulic release system. If you have a cable clutch, the rest of this paragraph is irrelevant. Buy parts carefully, because prices can be silly. If it's all working fine, there is no point as access is the same with gearbox in or out of the car. IMO the master cylinder is the main cause of trouble as weak seals suck in air. The slave is never under negative pressure so if it's not leaking, leave well alone. Parts labelled for 500 and Ford Ka are the same as used on Panda. Often much cheaper cost.

Release lever bearings are cheap but very brittle do not attempt to remove the old ones unless you have new ones to hand. A good soaking in oil is a better option than removal especially the lower one which is only accessible when the gearbox is off the car.
 
Mickit said:
Tbh im not sure if its cable or hydraulic. Maybe i should check that first!

I guess its visible from the top, if i look down behind the battery?
Click to expand...
Look at the fire wall above the pedals. If it's hydraulic there will be a little fluid reservoir and rubber pipe connecting it to the master cylinder.
 
To replace the input shaft seal you need to open up the gearbox, so you may as well replace the input shaft bearing too.

I feel (and I know I'm not alone) the input shaft bearing is a bit of a weak point on these transmissions. Personally, I would always replace it if doing a clutch on these. Here's a really good guide to replacing the input shaft bearing and seal

Probably fine for the expected lifespan of the car, but now that's over, I wouldn't be surprised if the plastic cage holding the bearings has collapsed or melted, causing play in the shaft which deforms the seal and results in leaks, which could contaminate a new clutch. Here's mine at 100k miles (160k km):
panda clutch 09b.jpg
If it was me, I would be replacing:
  • clutch kit
  • 2x driveshaft seals (I didn't do mine when the gearbox was off the car, but I wish I had)
  • 1x input shaft bearing (I used SKF Explorer 6204 C3 bearing)
  • 1x input shaft seal (part no. 40004670)
  • Clutch cable
  • Maybe release fork bushes (mine were fine, I didn't replace them)
 
I agree with the post above

Personally I only change what’s required.

Looking at photos of gearbox on eBay for the punto, panda and 500. I would estimate 50% need a new input bearing

This is slightly biased as people changing a faulty gearbox then sell the faulty one as working on eBay to recoup some of the costs.


My failure rate is out of 3 gearbox’s 2 were shot and one was okay. One only had 60K mile on it. Kept topped up with clean oil and driven carefully there good for an easy 200K
 
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