Technical Panda clutch slipping

[barrycash]

I think my Panda's clutch is slipping. I'm a reasonably competent DIY mechanic. Is fiting a new clutch a job I should be able to do myself? Are there any pitfalls for the DIYer? I've got the Haynes manual for the car. My neighbour said it cost £900 for a garage to fix her Panda's clutch.

 

[Greasytrucker]

Your neighbours Panda must have been a different model that uses a Dual Mass Flywheel I’d imagine which would be the best part of half the cost. Your clutch kit should be well under £100, and if you can get the car high enough to do it yourself it’ll save you a tonne of labor

 

[koalar]

I done a few on the drive

It's a maul, but there nothing very complicated

Helps if you have a helper

Think I paid just over £40 for a clutch last time, but would pay a little more on the next one and get a AP or LUK or similar

A couple of years ago a quote for a Kia which is identical to change was £360 and the parts are more expensive, 1 stop in Crewe, I don't know if they did a deal as I take a few different cars anyway for a MOT

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I think my Panda's clutch is slipping. I'm a reasonably competent DIY mechanic. Is fiting a new clutch a job I should be able to do myself? Are there any pitfalls for the DIYer? I've got the Haynes manual for the car. My neighbour said it cost £900 for a garage to fix her Panda's clutch.

Hi Barrycash. I'd agree that this is a very "doable" clutch for the home mechanic. You'll need to be able to get the front end up in the air far enough to give you good access. This will be difficult if you have a typically DIY quality trolley jack as they seldom lift high enough. And don't even think of getting under there unless supplementary support, such as stout axle stands, are in place and you are working on a hard surface like concrete for instance - please not on a gravel driveway for instance. I say this because you may have to get quite "physical" especially when refitting the box and, if on a loose surface, you might cause the car to fall off the stands with you underneath!

A good quality 3 piece kit such as LUK, Sachs, Valeo and others, I like Valeo which luckily my local factor sells, will typically be around the £70 mark give or take a few quid. (Shop4parts also sell the Valeo at around this price https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=27015 and you can get the genuine oil from them too https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=2401 which means you'll have spent enough to qualify for the forum discount. You can qualify for the discount when you make a contribution to the forum - and it doesn't have to be very much but I'd feel a bit miserly if less than £5.00? after which you can continue to claim the discount as often as you like.) Probably best to factor in an oil change for the box too, they always seem to benefit from an oil change - I like to drain it and pop the driveshafts out as it makes it lighter and more manageable although I know some like to leave the shafts in place. These engines don't have a pilot bearing in the flywheel so there's not the usual "hassle" getting the gearbox splined shaft to line up with the flywheel - you must still centre the driven plate accurately though. Also check any alignment dowels are in place between the bell housing and rear engine plate. If they are missing then, because the bell housing can be mounted slightly "off" relative to the back of the engine, you may experience early failure of the input shaft bearing. This bearing is a known weakness so you need to check it very carefully for any signs of oil leaking and/or lateral "lift". The bearing should be replaced if in any doubt. Unfortunately that means stripping the front of the gearbox as the bearing cannot be removed externally. - there's a guide somewhere on the forum as to how to do this. Don't ignore warning signs as the bearing will probably then quickly fail and ruin your new clutch with oil.

I'd expect an indy to charge around the £350 to £450 to do the job, That seems to be the going rate around me anyway. Maybe £500 but no more. A main dealer is likely to be quite a bit more though because their labour rates are steeper and they'll use genuine Fiat branded parts? I know my local Fiat indy asks for the car to be dropped off first thing in the morning and says, usually, it's ready for collection at lunchtime - I think they actually get the job done using a lift of course, in about a couple of hours.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I think my Panda's clutch is slipping. I'm a reasonably competent DIY mechanic. Is fiting a new clutch a job I should be able to do myself? Are there any pitfalls for the DIYer? I've got the Haynes manual for the car. My neighbour said it cost £900 for a garage to fix her Panda's clutch.

Please don't take this the wrong way but, you describe yourself as a reasonably competent DIY mechanic? But say you "think" the clutch is slipping? What is making you unsure? A slipping clutch is usually quite obvious.

 

[koalar]

Please don't take this the wrong way but, you describe yourself as a reasonably competent DIY mechanic? But say you "think" the clutch is slipping? What is making you unsure? A slipping clutch is usually quite obvious.

Good point

It pretty easy to test

Where it's safe to do so

Drive at around 20 mph

Push the clutch pedal in and select 5th

Raise the revs to around 2.5K you'll have to guess as there's no rev counter in most actives, it's about what you would do for a hill start

When the road speed falls to below 10 mph release the clutch, if it judders and stalls it's fine,

If it keeps running then it's faulty, dip the clutch and end the test

Slipping clutch is normally first noticeable when accelerating in 5th especially up hill

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Good point

It pretty easy to test

Where it's safe to do so

Drive at around 20 mph

Push the clutch pedal in and select 5th

Raise the revs to around 2.5K you'll have to guess as there's no rev counter in most actives, it's about what you would do for a hill start

When the road speed falls to below 10 mph release the clutch, if it judders and stalls it's fine,

If it keeps running then it's faulty, dip the clutch and end the test

Slipping clutch is normally first noticeable when accelerating in 5th especially up hill

There's a number of ways to check for a slipping clutch and the method you detail here will work as well as any. Personally - Oh Gawd, what's he going to come up with now? I hear you thinking - I don't like stalling an engine so my usual way of doing it is to find somewhere safe to drive along in a higher gear, 4th or 5th works well, but I've also done it in 3rd although that can be less definitive. You need to be achieving around 2000 to 2500 rpm - it's not "super critical" - When there's plenty of room around you traffic wise, of course best if you can find a deserted bit of road, open the throttle wide, keep the throttle fully depressed so the engine is pulling hard and "dab" the clutch pedal. I mean by this that you are going to very quickly depress the clutch pedal to the floor and immediately, with no delay so you don't over rev the engine, let the pedal fully back up again. What should happen is that the revs will rise very quickly when you depress the pedal, and then, virtually instantly, come back down to what they were before - ie the 2000 to 2500 you started at. When you depress the pedal it's literally a very quick "Dab" during which the revs will probably rise to around 4000/4500 rpm - but again it doesn't matter, but don't hold the clutch pedal down so the engine over revs of course! I wouldn't expect the revs to exceed 5000 and I'd be happy enough if they didn't quite reach the 4000 I mention above. It's the fact the pedal is depressed enough to fully disengage the driven plate and allow the revs to rise noticeably that's important. The whole process is very quick and takes seconds only.

So what to expect? what you're particularly interested in is how the clutch "bites" when you release the pedal. If the clutch is good then the revs will rise when the pedal is depressed but immediately return to where they started when the pedal returns. So you'll hear, and see on the rev counter, the instant increase in revs as you dip the clutch followed immediately by a return to the previous revs as the pedal is fully released again. If you have a good "ear" you'll hear it without needing to look at the rev counter. If the clutch is slipping badly the revs will not reduce when the pedal is released - indeed, if the clutch is truly on it's last legs, the revs may go on increasing so you'll need to be ready to quickly take your foot off the throttle to avoid over revving! There are also lesser effects if the clutch is just a bit "iffy", which mostly consist of a gradual reduction of revs once the pedal is released rather than a proper immediate "bite" instantly returning the revs to the previous 2000 starting point.

Of course, whatever procedure you decide to use, these "stress tests" put the clutch under extreme duress so it's only something you'd be doing if you strongly suspect there's a problem. I've tested many vehicles in this way and I like it because, apart from refraining from doing it in heavy traffic, you can do it just about anywhere. Oh, and by the way, if the clutch is slipping, don't be surprised if inducing slippage in this extreme way results in a disgusting smell of burnt lining!