General How do you start your car?

[Matthague]

Not a silly question.. but after getting my car back from its month long visit I've been told the reason it's showing a warning is that I'm turning the ignition straight on, and not to one notch and then starting. They say during the 2 stage start it doesn't show and that it's my issue.

My point was it shouldn't show at all, no matter how I start it, and the warning triangle must mean something is incorrect.

 

[AndyRKett]

Petrol or diesel.

Diesel cars do need you to turn it to position one first and wait for the glowplug light to go out before attempting to start it.

More modern cars over come this by having an electronic controled start sequence that will take over and wait for the glow plugs to finish before it then starts the car.


If this is a petrol car then there is no reason to be turning the key, waiting then turning it further.

 

[Matthague]

It's a Diesel.
I've always just started it up but if do it in stages I don't get a warning light on.

Just seemed odd they said thats the reason it's on (and not the fact it's been back every three weeks!)

 

[Greasytrucker]

Does it start better if you do a 2 stage start? As previously said diesels should be started in this way waiting for the glow plug light to go out before starting. What engine is it?

 

[Matthague]

Does it start better if you do a 2 stage start? As previously said diesels should be started in this way waiting for the glow plug light to go out before starting. What engine is it?

It doesn't start poorly at any point so it's not a performance issue.

Just that it came up with a warning in July when I bought it and it only comes off if there's a 2 step start, so they've said that I should just do that and it won't show.

The fact it is, and has been followed by 5 trips back and lots of work done tells me it's showing me something so by ignoring it or working round the light showing is avoiding the issue.

Don't have the v5 to hand so not sure what size it is.

 

[varesecrazy]

It doesn't start poorly at any point so it's not a performance issue.

Just that it came up with a warning in July when I bought it and it only comes off if there's a 2 step start, so they've said that I should just do that and it won't show.

In January you may need the 2 step start.. As your current technique isn't giving much heat to the cylinders

Modern cars are Covered in sensors

StopStart problems on mine were down to Cranking the engine before Plugging in the seatbelt

Over 1300 errors stored, I do it differently now

 

[Greasytrucker]

Could the triangle warning be telling you to use the glow plugs? Does the warning disappear or does it have to be cleared with a code reader?

 

[StevenRB45]

Modern cars are Covered in sensors

StopStart problems on mine were down to Cranking the engine before Plugging in the seatbelt

Over 1300 errors stored, I do it differently now

Sidenote...

Wtf?

 

[Matthague]

Could the triangle warning be telling you to use the glow plugs? Does the warning disappear or does it have to be cleared with a code reader?

The latest of the 5 faults was flashing up about the glow plugs and they've been changed this last visit.

When I bought the car, it was brought round from the showroom to the collection area, no light on. I drove it home and called for fuel and when I left the forecourt it was on, and hasn't come off apart from when they've said (more by luck as far as I can see) to do a 2 step start.

I don't think glow plugs is on the list of things the triangle represents but I don't have my book here. Its not showing on any code readers so theyve said it will need to go to a dealer to see why its showing.

If it is only showing because I've started it incorrectly,it's odd... I'd thought with having to have it back 5 times that the triangle would be to tell me there's a fault and as its not been dealt with its now progressed unchecked into major faults.

 

[varesecrazy]

Sidenote...

Wtf?

Gallic shrug..

 

[Greasytrucker]

The latest of the 5 faults was flashing up about the glow plugs and they've been changed this last visit.

When I bought the car, it was brought round from the showroom to the collection area, no light on. I drove it home and called for fuel and when I left the forecourt it was on, and hasn't come off apart from when they've said (more by luck as far as I can see) to do a 2 step start.

I don't think glow plugs is on the list of things the triangle represents but I don't have my book here. Its not showing on any code readers so theyve said it will need to go to a dealer to see why its showing.

If it is only showing because I've started it incorrectly,it's odd... I'd thought with having to have it back 5 times that the triangle would be to tell me there's a fault and as its not been dealt with its now progressed unchecked into major faults.

Sounds like something else definitely then and they’re fobbing you off. If it was just telling you to use the glow plugs it would clear after a while or disappear when ignition reset

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I'm a bit puzzled by this thread. My experience of older diesels is that, as others have said, you need to ensure the heater plugs are fully energized (so their tips are glowing nice and hot) before you operate the starter motor. The procedure would be to turn the ignition switch to the first position whereupon you'd see a little light illuminate on the dashboard and when the plugs were nice and hot - after a very short wait the light will go out - you'd turn the key further to operate the starter and start the engine. My 1999 Ibiza VE TDI worked like that. Having had petrol engined cars before that, Mrs J couldn't get used to it and would just crank the car without waiting. It would usually start after prolonged cranking - the colder it was the longer it would crank - and when it fired up it did so in a great cloud of choking white/light blue smoke!

Later cars incorporated electronics which monitor ambient air temperature and decide whether the heater plugs need to be activated. Most of these systems work automatically without intervention from the driver. If the plugs are needed the ECU will usually be activated by the opening of the drivers door so they will turn on when the door is opened. The theory behind this is that by the time you've entered the car, got comfortable and turned the ignition on the plugs will be nice and hot and ready for the start up. My boy's Fabia Scout 1.6 CR TDI worked like that.

What's puzzling me is that I don't think the car could care less whether the plugs are fully activated before you hit the starter motor. It'll crank for longer - indeed it may not start at all in very cold conditions - It'll put a lot more stress on the starter motor by extended cranking and there'll be lots of smoke from partially burnt fuel (this will probably not be very good for exhaust treatment components like DP filters etc) but I very much doubt that any dashboard warning will be activated to admonish you for your misuse of the system? I think something else is going on here but I've no idea what. If the car is "happy" when you pause at the first position then maybe you should just "humour " it and do this. It also occurs to me that, with this fault being so elusive, it might be a good idea to get a main dealer to interrogate the car with the official FIAT computer because generic code readers/scanners sometimes won't pick up on certain, more obscure, "stuff".

Might be cheaper though to simply "humour" it by performing that brief pause?

 

[portland_bill]

Have the fault codes been read, and if so, what does it say?
The car obviously has a problem with an immediate start, and is telling you off. What does the handbook say about starting prodcedure?
When the ignition is turned on, the computerrs run through a test/check procedure. An immediate start can change the state of sensors, before they've been checked, leading to errors, or at least a warning. This is what I think you are experiencing.
With the Panda 169 (03-12), if the engine is started immediately, not waiting for the check to complete, it will usually show the immobiliser lamp, which will stay until the next 'slow' start. Ideally, turn it on, wait for the fuel pump to run and stop, usually audible, then turn to start.

 

[Matthague]

Have the fault codes been read, and if so, what does it say?
The car obviously has a problem with an immediate start, and is telling you off. What does the handbook say about starting prodcedure?
When the ignition is turned on, the computerrs run through a test/check procedure. An immediate start can change the state of sensors, before they've been checked, leading to errors, or at least a warning. This is what I think you are experiencing.
With the Panda 169 (03-12), if the engine is started immediately, not waiting for the check to complete, it will usually show the immobiliser lamp, which will stay until the next 'slow' start. Ideally, turn it on, wait for the fuel pump to run and stop, usually audible, then turn to start.

I'll check the handbook once I'm home and see what it says. I'd guess it would say to do the 2 step start but I've always had petrol and never realised it may need to be done.

I dont think its telling me off, as there has been major faults every few weeks whilst it's been on (Turbo, DPF x2 Glow Plugs, Start stop failure x2) so it's telling me something... just no-one knows what.

It's been scanned 5 times when it's been dropped in, and then 3 times when I've picked it up.
The guy on Thursday showed me the screen (not that I understand it...) but the boxes were all green and he said no faults. I've not been given any readouts or print offs of it if that's what you mean.


No-one has picked up a fault when scanning so they've said before it can't be important- on my first trip back I had to do a 200mile round trip to Newcastle and I was bricking it thinking that something may go wrong with the triangle showing. They just said its nothing serious and to just fetch it back in 3weeks.

This time I've got it in writing that they'll send it to a dealer as its meaning I'm unwilling to drive too far

 

[The Panda Nut]

I have never had a car that used a general / non specific warning light for glow plugs, they always use a specific light. If you have the warning triangle light it may suggest something tiotally unrelated to the obvious culprits and point to a general wiring issue. If the car starts OK then the diesel system is OK. I would recommend you use a diesel clean additive on a regular basis to avoid likely issues with modern diesels even though such things are expensive. The triangle light can be set off by EGR valves playing up so use cleaning additive every other tank of fuel.
.
Check all the light bulbs, and suspect the number plate light bulbs most. I have had dodgy bulbs cause spurious problems on a diesel Bravo (2013 model) it messed up the cruie control. I have also had bad contacts in the number plate lights cause intermitent fault warnings.

I hope you find what ever the culprit is soon.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Get in, turn key, car starts immediately. 1.3 multijet, 114K miles. I used to give it a few secs for warming, but I haven't found the need.

 

[varesecrazy]

If they are seeing :

No issue starting

No problems driving

No recorded FaultCodes

AND

The warnings Never come on with a 2 click approach to starting..

My money is on a basic problem in power supply


As you have given the Battery a chance to power the modules around the car Before cranking the motor


Cranking too soon can Rob kit of power as they are trying to "WakeUp"..
Voltage drops Rob sensors of power

 

[AndyRKett]

I do think that it is something to do with switching it too rapidly and the car is thinking there is a fault with the glow plugs or in the start up sequence because it’s never given a chance to preheat.

Generally if there is a triangle warning light that is usually followed by a message but if you’re in too much of a hurry and you do anything that stops the message displaying then you won’t know what the error message says

How about letting the glow plugs do their job then start the car and it the message never comes back then maybe it that really is the problem, however if the error does come back doing it their way then you can take it back and tell them they’re wrong

 

[Matthague]

I have never had a car that used a general / non specific warning light for glow plugs, they always use a specific light. If you have the warning triangle light it may suggest something tiotally unrelated to the obvious culprits and point to a general wiring issue. If the car starts OK then the diesel system is OK. I would recommend you use a diesel clean additive on a regular basis to avoid likely issues with modern diesels even though such things are expensive. The triangle light can be set off by EGR valves playing up so use cleaning additive every other tank of fuel.
.
Check all the light bulbs, and suspect the number plate light bulbs most. I have had dodgy bulbs cause spurious problems on a diesel Bravo (2013 model) it messed up the cruie control. I have also had bad contacts in the number plate lights cause intermitent fault warnings.

I hope you find what ever the culprit is soon.

They've checked all lights, under the bonnet and they're at a loss.
I think the only way it'll be found is if it's at a Dealership, just confused why it's supposedly linked to how I start and wanted a bit of back up if they're fishing a bit

 

[portland_bill]

The diagnostic system has to be readable by all, for the powertrain. The rest of the vehicle can be manufacturer specific. Fiat especially seems to talk an alien language for most diagnostic systems, so unless the garage has Fiat specific software, they may not see stored faults for non-engine systems.
Lots of us on here use an aftermarket diagnosis system designed for Fiat Group vehicles, called MultiECUscan (MES). There is a thread specifically to show those with the software ready to help others. https://www.fiatforum.com/directory/categories/multiecuscan-register.4/
Knowing where you are might help. This is why the forum has a location option.
Ideally, the car needs its codes read, to identify any that might be stored and applicable. A Fiat dealer will charge an hour labour to do this, forum members tend to charge by the mug of tea.