Going Electric.. present small car options.. confusing

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Going Electric.. present small car options.. confusing

still at money that most would baulk at the idea of paying for a car that can't do Newcastle to York or to Edinburgh without an enforced break.

Some could argue the leaf still is also, especially as the examples at the price point you quote have smaller battery’s and even smaller range than the Soul.

At the end of the day everyone has different disposable incomes. It’s for this reason different vehicle marques and qualities exist.

Obviously your example only compares usage case, but if used as the only car where it’ll need the occasional rapid charge, or one or two long journeys a year, one will come into its own a lot better than the other. Obviously it’ll be for the buyer to decide if this warrants the additional premium or not.
 
From what Ive heard.. pay to charge points have just got expensive....??

It used to be you needed multiple apps to access different charging networks with multiple accounts. I seem to recall they were starting to work towards rationality where you would just park up and use debit card. I would imagine MEP and Didge will know precisely how far they've gone along that road.

I would say you probably may as well hang on to the Ibiza. Especially as you do travel proper distances from time to time..
You still need a lot of apps and you still run into chargers that don't work unfortunately. My car isn't capable of rapid charging, slow chargers are typically free or pretty cheap, more expensive than charging at home but still cheaper than petrol/diesel. I've got 3 apps I use on the regular for charging, 2 of them hold 'credit' that I have to top up although its very occasional as I do 95% of charging at home. The third is a free network but you have to claim the charge on the app.
Rapids are getting more expensive in the same way a motorway services charges more for fuel than a supermarket. Some can be comparably priced with the cost per mile working out as similar to an efficient diesel.

When I took the plunge last summer on electric I was so put off by the charging network I still felt the need to go PHEV, I drive a lot for work and as a contractor I can get sent somewhere at a moments notice, a BEV in my price range was going to be capable of 80-110miles dependant on weather etc which just isn't enough and I'm not confident enough in the charging network although it is always improving.
 
I'm not "against" EVs but I do think they are far too expensive for what you are buying at this time. Hopefully they will greatly reduce in price when they are the only thing you can buy and/or someone invents some completely new way to make/store electricity. In the meantime, as you say, I think I'm probably as well to try to make the Ibiza last as long as possible.

I think we are seeing an adjustment in the industry at the moment. Cars have been for a very long time now “cheap” if you look at what you can buy these days. To use your own example £11k for a new car is an exceptional deal, if you consider what else you can get for £11k

A new conservatory or kitchen is likely to cost considerably more. Which amounts to some glass panes or some cupboards. A couple of holidays can easily add up to that sort of money. Even technology I posted about buying a treadmill a few weeks back and while no comparable to a car, I paid not far off £1000 there is a huge amount more that goes into a single car than the materials, time and effort into making a dozen treadmill.

The electric car is allowing car companies to rewrite the books, they need the money coming in to survive, they also need the money to keep developing new technologies.

I can see £30,000 - £40,000 becoming the new normal for new car prices at the bottom end. Regardless of how much battery prices fall.

Electric cars don’t need the same sort of servicing they don’t need as much maintenance and they don’t tend to break due to very few moving parts, there is no carbon deposits or piston rings no bearing surfaces to wear. There is no loss of power over time because of these things. There is no exhaust pipes to rust, no gear cables to snap, no gear box fluid to replace and no changing gears to wear out synchros. There is very little in common between an electric car and a combustion engined car. And as a result new electric cars will last longer, they will be more economical to repair and they will hold there value better.

Also years ago a car consisted of 4 wheels an engine and some seats, it was a very simple thing that didn’t really cost all that much to make, when these days even the cheapest cars are very advanced with computers and technology that is not cheap to develop, so profit margins are probably tiny now. They need to sell new cars and they need to do that at a healthy profit, the way many are doing this with electric car is the lease model so that the customer pays for the depreciation and profit but the manufacturers never lose ownership of the car, they can then sell it second hand or lease it again for more money 3-4 years down the line.

The guy who organised my test drive in an ID,3 let slip that by leasing the car it allows vw to control used car prices later down the road ensuring that your new car isn’t suddenly worthless, I think however he wasn’t bright enough to realise if I was leasing the car i couldn’t car less how worthless the car was 3 years from now because it’s still not my car.
 
Small EVs make a huge amount of sense in busy cities. London on a hot day is horrible. Out in the sticks they really dont get enough use to offset the costs. Also, local pollution is not an issue so a the few litres of petrol a city car uses each year is not a terrible thing.

Eventually we will all be driving electric. The switch(!) will be rapid and almost certainly disruptive to the legacy car industry.
 
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Rapids are getting more expensive in the same way a motorway services charges more for fuel than a supermarket. Some can be comparably priced with the cost per mile working out as similar to an efficient diesel.

Agreed. Some of the costs are eye watering, and certainly put the per mile cost on par with a an economical small car.

My Panda 4x4 on LPG costs the same as my Soul EV per mile if I'm rapid charging it. Crazy really! Home charging is where the saving come into their own however.

Out in the sticks they really dont get enough use to offset the costs.

On the contrary, out in the sticks they'll be doing higher mileage to get between places. This is where an EV will cost in very quickly with higher mileage users.
 
Agreed. Some of the costs are eye watering, and certainly put the per mile cost on par with a an economical small car.

My Panda 4x4 on LPG costs the same as my Soul EV per mile if I'm rapid charging it. Crazy really! Home charging is where the saving come into their own however.

Even better if you can cover the roof of your house in solar panels and have a power wall or two in the garage, the cost of charging the car can be virtually nothing. That’s the way I would want to go funds allowing.
 
Ive always been intrigued by the house panels

Just laid parallel to the roof..
No attempt to aim at 'midday sun'

I have toyed with the idea of 'motorised'
Panels.. tracking the sun on a daily basis

Gains are supposedly massive :)

I was watching something the other day where they where planning to build a tracking system and with some simple tests got 30% gains on the amount of power produced versus static . However if you have a large installation with say 10 or 20 panels the costs of making all of them track the sun would be huge and need some pretty beefy engineering.
 
Ive always been intrigued by the house panels

Just laid parallel to the roof..
No attempt to aim at 'midday sun'

I have toyed with the idea of 'motorised'
Panels.. tracking the sun on a daily basis

Gains are supposedly massive :)

Just a thought:
If you go this way, then probably best to include wind sensors, so the panels go flat to the roof when strong winds or gusts are detected, otherwise much strengthening required to prevent the wind from ripping the panels off.
 
Even better if you can cover the roof of your house in solar panels and have a power wall or two in the garage, the cost of charging the car can be virtually nothing. That’s the way I would want to go funds allowing.
Interests me too as the rear of my house faces almost due south. I'm intrigued by the concept of solar water heating too.

One thing might be worth considering though - My younger boy's house is an old miner's cottage, one of maybe a hundred or so. With the local pit now long closed these cottages were, for many years, rented out at affordable rents but, a few years ago they introduced an affordable, shared equity, purchase plan. So part owned by the housing association, part owned by the occupier, with the intention that the occupier can eventually buy the entire property. My son entered into one of these agreements and it's been brilliant - he now owns the house outright which he could never have done under any other provision.

However, back to the original subject. Just after he signed up, the housing association installed solar panels on the roofs of all the properties they still owned - which makes it easy and interesting to see which houses are now privately owned. (although it's now easy to see that all the association owned houses are painted the same - doors, windows, fascia/sofits, etc) However just lately, because he's had an extension built to the rear of his house, the roofers recommended remedial work to the rest of his roof whilst they were up there. When we looked closely at it you could plainly see what they were talking about so we agreed (had to lend him a bit of dosh!) and, as he has no power panels it was was easily and quickly achieved.

Because they are the same age we were not surprised when his next door neighbour informed him the housing association (he's still a tenant) were about to begin a program of roof renovation on his property in the near future and they may require access to his garden - they are semi detached cottages - We will be watching, with great interest, to see if the solar panels, which cover a good 2/3 of the roof, have to be removed? I would imagine that would considerably increase the cost of the work?
 
We will be watching, with great interest, to see if the solar panels, which cover a good 2/3 of the roof, have to be removed? I would imagine that would considerably increase the cost of the work?

While there will be costs, this’ll mainly be labour, and they’re easy to bolt off their mounts so I can’t see it taking more than a few hours. Probably more than covered by the revenue they generate.
 
I would imagine that would considerably increase the cost of the work?

There is always going to be a cost involved with anything like this but realistically the housing association shouldn’t have been putting panels on a bad roof, you’d like to think the installers would be putting tiles back in place and nailing anything down that needs it before they cover them over, especially as they have to lift the tiles to install the mounting brackets for the panels.

There are several options with solar, I have seen people in the states having had the Tesla Solar tiles fitted which look like regular roof slates but are actually small solar panels, I have also seen people in essence remove the roof and mount solar panels in place so that the large glass panels act like massive roof slates.

Most have the panels raised a few inches above the roof to allow some cooling air behind the panels.

Most of the old set ups especially if done by a housing association where to make the most of the tarrif that the electricity companies pay the owners, in many cases the owners or tennant of the house got very little while the people who install the panels or the association pocketed the money. The rates for this are not so good now, which is why many are not installing new solar panels like they used to, mainly because in the past the company would fit the panels for a massively reduced rate hoping to make there money back off the electricity produced, or paid for by grants or other government incentives which have now all ended.

Most systems are around 4KwH which isn’t a lot to be honest and usually is quite a small set up.

If I were looking to install them on my own home I’d want to at least double that so there is plenty of power for everything in the house during the day, then any excess is funnelled into a battery back up for use over night. If you really need it you’ve got the cheaper over night electric tarrifs as well either for running the washer or dryer as well as adding charge to the battery.

With the way that new house builds are going they are putting a stop to the use of gas boilers and increasingly pushing the use of ground source heat pumps which can be run from electricity they can be very expensive to run if off mains electricity.

Given how the prices of these things have come down it would be very easy for a few thousand pounds investment to reduce bills to near zero, and with a bit of land and many more panels you could even have your own little profitable power station
 
https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/advice/solar-water-heating/

Solar hot water would pay if you only have electric heating for hot water.

I had an IMI cylinder which provided a vented heating system. Gas boiler was connected on once side of the cylinder with a pump. Radiators to the other side with their own pump. A stove back boiler or solar system could be connected. You can specify the cylinder with up to four inlet outlet pairs on the body of the cylinder wall. Electric valves prevent back syphon effect to rads, solar, etc.

Domestic hot water at mains pressure is heated via a high performance coil in the TOP of the cylinder where it extracts heat. The DHW and boiler water never mix. An expansion bulb prevents the taps from spurting when first opened. But it's not an "unvented" system so complex safety systems are not needed.

There was a very clever system where the gas heat exchanger was integrated into the cylinder. It was not qualified for a secondary heat source but the principle was the same.

Found it. https://duvalheating.co.uk/powermax-boiler/
As the article says gas technicians took one look and walked but they were really not complicated. Stainless flue pipes solved the condensate issue. Burner gaskets were easy to replace and it can't have been the only boiler where the fire box has to be checked and confirmed leak-free or the flames are burning clean. Oh yes they all do. ;)
 
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Tesla have stopped selling solar panels without a battery pack. You can now only get them as a set with a back-up battery which has upsets a few buyers. The reason (in USA at least) is you can wait months for the power utility to grant a connection licence for the solar panels. The battery pack solves the problem because you run everything off the battery then only use mains power to top it up if the solar is not keeping up. Feed-in tariffs can be added later.
 
My friend with the problematic Golf GTD is looking to buy something with significantly less miles

The e.Golf has a useable 180 mile range.. he does 110 a day

Charge time : 17 hours

Shame he has to go to work within 12 hours of getting home..

Looks like another DERV is on the cards :eek:
 
That 17 hour charge time doesn't match any quoted times I can find for an e-golf must be on a domestic socket, E-golf doesn't have a big battery if he got a 7kw charger in it would be done in 5 or 3.5kw would be 12 hours.
 
Is 7kw going to push the battery hard?

Just trying to get my head around it..

No.

That 17 hours will be on a 3 pin plug. 7kw h9me fast charger will be a lot less.

My Kia is 14 hours on a 3pin 0-100% or 4.25 hours on a fast charger like what I’ve got at mine and my parents as like what most have fitted at home.

At 110 miles a day fuel saving alone will be circa £12-15 a day if home charging! That’ll soon mount up.

Not sure I’ve seen the E-Golf being capable of 180 miles however.
 
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A lot is being said about fast charging in just a few hours but I'm wondering, with most batteries, if you push high rates of charge into them they degrade much more quickly than if you "trickle charge" them. Does the same rational apply to these EV car batteries or are they completely different "animals" altogether?

I also came across an article about electric cars where someone was saying they would charge the battery fully whenever they returned to home regardless of whether they might use the car within the next day or so or not. The author of the article was pointing out that it's not good practice to do this - fully charge the battery and then not use it for some time - and it's much better practice to let one of these batteries stand at part charged, which I seem to remember being the recommendation for the Li-ion batteries that came with my boy's new drill?
 
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