Going Electric.. present small car options.. confusing

[varesecrazy]

Well..
In the last month I have discovered 'electric' isnt for me

I saw a Zoe at a local car sales place.
£5K..seemed good Battery is £70 per month

I friend has bought a leaf.. a new 2020 model.. says the range is 'acceptable'..

As long as you dont 'flog.it'...
THAT MEANS BELOW 50MPH..!!

yesterdays commute was a tough one

M4 shut ..M5 crawling.. so I took the A40

Lots of 55/60 so managed the 110 miles in 3 hours.. wouldnt want any longer in a 'slower' car.

I read a press release the other day about the European model new Electric FIAT 500..
Range : 200 miles

Thats massive for a small car..!!
Could be inherited PSA experience.. or just marketing hype

Im buying a low miles I.C.E. car
..and will revisit in 3 years

 

[Didge3]

Well..
In the last month I have discovered 'electric' isnt for me

I saw a Zoe at a local car sales place.
£5K..seemed good Battery is £70 per month

I friend has bought a leaf.. a new 2020 model.. says the range is 'acceptable'..

As long as you dont 'flog.it'...
THAT MEANS BELOW 50MPH..!!

yesterdays commute was a tough one

M4 shut ..M5 crawling.. so I took the A40

Lots of 55/60 so managed the 110 miles in 3 hours.. wouldnt want any longer in a 'slower' car.

I read a press release the other day about the European model new Electric FIAT 500..
Range : 200 miles

Thats massive for a small car..!!
Could be inherited PSA experience.. or just marketing hype

Im buying a low miles I.C.E. car
..and will revisit in 3 years

I'm going to guess its a 40kWh model and not the 62kWh.
120miles of motorway range is probably about right in good weather conditions. Shouldn't have to stick to 50MPH for that though, I'd say it's achievable at 65.
Really you need to buy the car that meets your requirements for range, the same as with an ICE car, if you're doing lots of motorway trips most people will prefer the 2L diesel saloon/SUV for the easy overtaking and comfort compared to a little 3 pot 1L cheap as chips hatch.
A Leaf 62kWh is a step up for people needing to do longer motorway trips which will do around 180miles (still not a huge range granted)
An VW ID.3 will manage 200miles on the motorway and a Hyundai Kona will do 220.
All of these cars will do a good 50miles more at least at more sedate single carriage way and town speeds so you have to take that into account unless you leave your starting point immediately onto a motorway and arrive at your destination also on a motorway.

I'm not trying to convince you to ditch the ICE and go EV though, I strongly agree it doesn't work for most people, it doesn't quite work for me just yet hence my choice of a PHEV.

 

[StevenRB45]

I've probably covered it before in this thread, but despite my relatively low annual mileage unfortunately its not for me either.

Monday we have 3 hours of motorway fully laden planned, this is not a problem in the latest electric cars it'll manage it but I'm not putting 40k into something that's going to age like a laptop and that in reality is going to sit an awful lot given I work from the office 1 day a week and the office is 7 miles away.

Even if we rationalised our household vehicles down to 1 and "right we'll buy something expensive to replace both cars with". Electric cars come in 2 sizes...too small or too big, C3 is my wife's commuter and is used for day trips when I'm at work and she doesn't like bigger cars. I tried to give her the Mazda a while back and she didn't like the size of it "Makes me feel like a borrower driving it" was the exact quote. Kia E-niro has a good range but is too big...Peugeot 208 has a decent range but is too small, Peugeot E2008 is probably somewhere in the middle..but cheapest used one is about 30k. However we need the space for family days so can't get a 500 or other small electric car.

Also if you combine the mileages of both cars annually its about 8k, and both do 40mpg so fuel savings would be about 1500 quid a year. But as we own both outright all we pay is upkeep, fuel and tax insurance which for both cars comes to about 1600 quid a year. So 3 grand a year for 2 cars or about 350 pm upwards /4200 a year for 1 + Chunky deposit + electricity + insurance.

The maths doesn't work unless you're already renting something in the 40k+ range at the moment or spending huge amounts of money on fuel.

Give it a few years and the cars with decent ranges should be affordable at which point it's a different picture. Think we're going with these will be last ice cars we have but there's no rush to get rid.

 

[StevenRB45]

This was an interesting video for me at least...

Given I'm considering 2 of 3 as next family bus..

https://youtu.be/kqCZjFbzGa8

Real world ranges seem rather disappointing on the winter side, 160 in summer would be fine 130 in winter not so much.

 

[varesecrazy]

This was an interesting video for me at least...

Given I'm considering 2 of 3 as next family bus..

https://youtu.be/kqCZjFbzGa8

Real world ranges seem rather disappointing on the winter side, 160 in summer would be fine 130 in winter not so much.

The new builds will have better ranges

The soon to be built European 500 is slated to be 200 miles.. unheard of in such a small footprint vehicle

Thats why I decided to buy a petrol for the next few years

 

[StevenRB45]

The new builds will have better ranges

The soon to be built European 500 is slated to be 200 miles.. unheard of in such a small footprint vehicle

Thats why I decided to buy a petrol for the next few years

All 3 of these are officially rated at 200 miles + so very much will believe it when I see it I think. Realistically to get an actual all weather 200 you'd probably be looking at well over 250 on the wltp cycle they currently test on. Also all 3 get a standard heat pump to reduce range change in winter..other evs that is a cost option so could be even worse

As I've posted no plans to jump soon..but very much keeping an eye on what is going on.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

All 3 of these are officially rated at 200 miles + so very much will believe it when I see it I think. Realistically to get an actual all weather 200 you'd probably be looking at well over 250 on the wltp cycle they currently test on. Also all 3 get a standard heat pump to reduce range change in winter..other evs that is a cost option so could be even worse

As I've posted no plans to jump soon..but very much keeping an eye on what is going on.

Ultimately I say just take the battery size and assume 3-3.5miles a kWh in winter and 4-4.5 in the summer. This is what I tend to experience in mine, and the Soul is essentially a brick, although the Koreans do seem to have EV efficiency down to a T, with normal driving, IE heat on toasty in winter, AC on ICE cold currently and not hanging about etc.

 

[Didge3]

This was an interesting video for me at least...

Given I'm considering 2 of 3 as next family bus..

https://youtu.be/kqCZjFbzGa8

Real world ranges seem rather disappointing on the winter side, 160 in summer would be fine 130 in winter not so much.

There's a lot of mixed opinions on the Corsa/208/C4 electric variants, IMO that is the issue right there, they're electric variants of ICE cars and always end up being slightly flawed.
Personally I do like the new styling Vauxhall models have, thanks to PSA I assume. The new Corsa and Mokka look very appealing. If I had to buy an EV now I'd probably go for a 2020 Kia Soul, 7 year warranty it looks pretty funky to me and a huge battery, its still technically a variant of an ICE car although they don't sell it as an ICE vehicle in the UK

 

[StevenRB45]

There's a lot of mixed opinions on the Corsa/208/C4 electric variants, IMO that is the issue right there, they're electric variants of ICE cars and always end up being slightly flawed.
Personally I do like the new styling Vauxhall models have, thanks to PSA I assume. The new Corsa and Mokka look very appealing. If I had to buy an EV now I'd probably go for a 2020 Kia Soul, 7 year warranty it looks pretty funky to me and a huge battery, its still technically a variant of an ICE car although they don't sell it as an ICE vehicle in the UK

To be fair electric power trains from PSA are under an 8 year warranty. They recently extended some cars up to 5 on everything as well so that warranty is no longer as class leading as it was.

Think the thing about their strategy is, there's a huge number of cars and vans across stellantis being built or about to be launched with this under it. As result I'd imagine the development budget for improving efficiency etc will be pretty massive and I'd suspect the face-lift gen 2 versions will have significantly better ranges.

 

[varesecrazy]

Ultimately..the Koreans do seem to have EV efficiency down to a T

The Innards seem to be an LG Electronics product

The EV component supplier market seems to have grown massively..
It the future

 

[StevenRB45]

Holy thread resurrection but 6 month test of latest spec Zoe up.



With a 340 litre boot the Zoe actually matches the Mazda boot and is bigger than Citroën. But removing the curtain airbags reduces the safety spec down to the same as our old 2003 Nissan Micra. I.e. 4 airbags one in front of each front seat occupant and a thorax bag on a 30k car. And I used to get annoyed at Vw for making rear curtains optional on family cars...at least you can get them at all.

Shame as otherwise in terms of "can it replace the C3 as a car that just gets us about?" would be spot on pretty much.

Optional 50kw fast charge is not very future proof...but the range is good enough that I'd not be arriving many places needing to hammer a good chunk back in.

Oh well back to watching reviews and plotting..

 

[puntofan01]

Ultimately I say just take the battery size and assume 3-3.5miles a kWh in winter and 4-4.5 in the summer. This is what I tend to experience in mine, and the Soul is essentially a brick, although the Koreans do seem to have EV efficiency down to a T, with normal driving, IE heat on toasty in winter, AC on ICE cold currently and not hanging about etc.

Out of interest, what is the typical range you get out of your Soul? I saw an advert for a used Soul EV, and it reckon you get 70 miles on a full charge. Surely that's not right?!

 

[puntofan01]

Holy thread resurrection but 6 month test of latest spec Zoe up.



With a 340 litre boot the Zoe actually matches the Mazda boot and is bigger than Citroën. But removing the curtain airbags reduces the safety spec down to the same as our old 2003 Nissan Micra. I.e. 4 airbags one in front of each front seat occupant and a thorax bag on a 30k car. And I used to get annoyed at Vw for making rear curtains optional on family cars...at least you can get them at all.

Shame as otherwise in terms of "can it replace the C3 as a car that just gets us about?" would be spot on pretty much.

Optional 50kw fast charge is not very future proof...but the range is good enough that I'd not be arriving many places needing to hammer a good chunk back in.

Oh well back to watching reviews and plotting..

Why on earth have they removed the curtain airbags for?! That's quite a major downgrade!!

 

[AndyRKett]

Holy thread resurrection but 6 month test of latest spec Zoe up.



With a 340 litre boot the Zoe actually matches the Mazda boot and is bigger than Citroën. But removing the curtain airbags reduces the safety spec down to the same as our old 2003 Nissan Micra. I.e. 4 airbags one in front of each front seat occupant and a thorax bag on a 30k car. And I used to get annoyed at Vw for making rear curtains optional on family cars...at least you can get them at all.

Shame as otherwise in terms of "can it replace the C3 as a car that just gets us about?" would be spot on pretty much.

Optional 50kw fast charge is not very future proof...but the range is good enough that I'd not be arriving many places needing to hammer a good chunk back in.

Oh well back to watching reviews and plotting..

I have to agree with his wife, it does look like an old lady's car, actually its a lot like the old Renault Modus in shape and size and appearance.

Of course non of this means its a "bad" car, it just depends on what you want from a car.

I've stopped watching his channel now, I find he flips and flops on his opinions of things, one minute he wants a flat boot floor in a car, he copies the views of other motoring journalists, but then he'll make a video like this when suddenly its a bonus to have a lip at the back of the boot.


Cars are like most things very subjective, what one person likes another will hate, I think that why channels like Doug DeMuro does so well because it doesn't review the cars as much as it just shows you every thing about a car and you can make your own opinions.

 

[StevenRB45]

I have to agree with his wife, it does look like an old lady's car, actually its a lot like the old Renault Modus in shape and size and appearance.

Of course non of this means its a "bad" car, it just depends on what you want from a car.

I've stopped watching his channel now, I find he flips and flops on his opinions of things, one minute he wants a flat boot floor in a car, he copies the views of other motoring journalists, but then he'll make a video like this when suddenly its a bonus to have a lip at the back of the boot.


Cars are like most things very subjective, what one person likes another will hate, I think that why channels like Doug DeMuro does so well because it doesn't review the cars as much as it just shows you every thing about a car and you can make your own opinions.

When you get to the car as a utensil though, which is the territory pretty much all even slightly affordable evs represent..I'm not sure if looking like a old lady car matters.

All it's direct competitors that are remotely interesting are toy cars, 500e, Mini electric, Honda E and Mazda MX30. Only for singletons, Oaps and second car use due to either range, interior space or both.

The ones that aren't toys..eg the various flavours of Stellantis have less interior space and less range, although of them the Peugeot 208 is reasonably interesting.

I think for my approach for this is going to be the same approach as the one that ended up with me buying the C3...I.e. What are my absolute requirements? OK what's the cheapest option of making that happen that's liveable? Not that I'd buy a car in 2022 with no side airbags.

When all the options are Meh...might as well be cheap.

Re. Mr Smith...I think he kinda represents the Middle ground between Mat Watson and something as dry as Doug Demuro or autogefuhl where they literally get out the rulers. You see enough of the car to get a decent idea what it'll be like even if you don't necessarily agree with all the conclusions.

 

[varesecrazy]

Interesting to see the forums 500e owners are getting 140/160 miles range in a European winter.

That would just about do me.. but the cost of 'powering' the thing for @300 miles a week is not so cheap.. and lease deals cap the mileage.. so can only drive it 75% of the year :-(

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Out of interest, what is the typical range you get out of your Soul? I saw an advert for a used Soul EV, and it reckon you get 70 miles on a full charge. Surely that's not right?!

75-80 miles in the freezing temps of winter without trying, ie heating on 23.5C, heated seats and steering wheel on and driving normally. Summer with the same journeys and again not overly trying easily 115-120 miles, often knocking on 130 miles. This is using A & B roads mainly also, with a small bit of city driving, no not just plodding about at a very economical 30mph. Dont forget the Soul was launched nearly 8 years ago, and the first ones had a 27kwh usable battery pack.

The new Soul and other new Kia / Hyundai EV models are now packing 64kwh batteries, and seem to be an easy real world 250-300+ miles in the summer, and should be an easy 200-250 in freezing winter weather.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Interesting to see the forums 500e owners are getting 140/160 miles range in a European winter.

That would just about do me.. but the cost of 'powering' the thing for @300 miles a week is not so cheap.. and lease deals cap the mileage.. so can only drive it 75% of the year :-(

How’s 3p a mile for powering it no so cheap? An economical petrol / diesel is circa 15p+ a mile with currently fuel costs.

 

[varesecrazy]

Around here its £15 to charge it..
Thats comparable cost per mile to my twinair

@8 to10 pence a mile..

Most leases are 8k pa which doesnt work for me 220 a weekend soon adds up.. and that doesnt even get me to work everyday

 

[StevenRB45]

Around here its £15 to charge it..
Thats comparable cost per mile to my twinair

@8 to10 pence a mile..

Most leases are 8k pa which doesnt work for me 220 a weekend soon adds up.. and that doesnt even get me to work everyday

At current fuel prices...that's about 70mpg.

I'm not entirely sure that would be accurate in the middle of winter..unless you've got the most economical twin air in existence.

On vpower at 42mpg or so I'm currently sitting at 18p a mile. In summer when it's not just doing round the doors it'll be happily into mid to high 50s.

Maths still doesnt work as even at reduced winter mileage and paying 1.63 per litre monthly fuel bill is just over 100 pounds.

You can build your own lease yes most quoted examples are 8000..because it looks cheap.

Big battery 500 is about 320 pm on a 17.5k mileage cap.