Technical Front suspension and brakes

[Aad Doix]

Dear Community,

Due to some noises I hear from the front suspension (left side of the car) I tried to find out what could be the culprit and to (let) replace which parts. Sounds are hard to explain, so I will not try here. A visual inspection gave me the impression that the joints and bushes of rod and torsion bar and even the shock absorber and the spring itself are still quite okay but the one bush of the swinging arm could be better. I also hear some noises from the rear suspension when lifting the car but that I will inspect later. I do not know whether this quite simple construction could be a weak spot of the Panda?
But back to the front suspension: when inspecting I also put some pressure on the suspension by pushing the car down a few times when grounded and rotating the wheel when lifted up. Two sounds were especially interesting:

1. a squeeking sound around the top mount when pushing and
2. a grinding sound when rotating the wheel .....

The brakes were replaced not so long ago according to the previous owner, but there may be something wrong here and I will report this to the garage but when locating that squeeking sound I see that top mount do have some room to put forward or backwards when installed (see image)? Normally those things are installed fixed with two, three or fout bolts but not at a Panda? And regarding these images, are they installed properly or are they a bit out of line?

Thanks in advance for your reaction and kind regards,

Aad

 

[koalar]

I take it neither

1. a squeeking sound around the top mount when pushing and
2. a grinding sound when rotating the wheel .....

Are the noise your trying to find

1 and 2 could be a top mount bearing that's gone dry

Seeing as we have no idea what type of noise we are looking for, or when it happens, there's not a lot to go on yet

And

The photos of the gap on the top hat is in fact normal, the top hat only stops the struts falling out when you jack the car or the car it airborne

It's only the weight of the car that holds the struts at the top

The noise

Turning corners
Going over big bumps
Over rough surfaces
Driving fast or slow
Worse at the beginning of a journey
Worse at the end of a journey

Squeaking
Scratching
Rattling
Banging

 

[ZaphodB]

I see that top mount do have some room to put forward or backwards when installed (see image)? Normally those things are installed fixed with two, three or fout bolts but not at a Panda? And regarding these images, are they installed properly or are they a bit out of line?

As said , normal

 

[DaveMcT]

I have seen top mount bearings dry to the point of collapse but they made no noise. The only difference was a lighter steering feel with new bearings but the original driver would not have known. There was probably a tendency to wander on motorways but (again) most drivers would not notice.

 

[Aad Doix]

When driving I do not notice any strange behavior, except you hear the suspension quite good when hitting potholes and speed bumps. No vague steering, no going left or right when braking hard and the noise I heard from the left front brake this morning (see video below) wasn't heard anymore when driving with windows open in narrow streets .... I am a bit confused but I think with in mind that the shock and spring still seemed in good condition that the swinging arm and the rod between shock and torsion bar needs to be replaced on both sides?

P.S. please don't be bothered by that asthmatic breathing, I just woke up and I guess I'm not in very good shape....

 

[ZaphodB]

You need to get a jemmy in the appropriate place on all the bushes of the lower arms to see where the play (knock) is , and look carefully for play/movement where there shouldn't be

 

[koalar]

Brakes should drag

Normal

Is it a loud bang on pot holes

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

You need to get a jemmy in the appropriate place on all the bushes of the lower arms to see where the play (knock) is , and look carefully for play/movement where there shouldn't be

Pay particular attention to the rear rubber bush on the front suspension arms. The rubber can crack/split/detach and allow the metal of the arm to rattle/knock against the structure of the car.

The gap on the top mounts is normal - as koalar said above - Nice to see someone has put grease on the threads of the shock absorber damper rod nut. These tend to corrode in place and make removal difficult. Again, as koalar says above, this top mount is a "floating" design and relies on the weight of the car to locate the mount. When you jack the car up and the weight is no longer there, the "top hat" is all that stops the strut dropping out of the inner wing. There are no other fixing nuts/bolts like in many other designs. Actually this design is now used by a number of other manufacturers too.

Have you had someone turn the wheel for you while you move about and listen for where that noise is coming from?

 

[DaveMcT]

I had a worn bottom arm ball joint pin clamp. The issue was easy to find with the car on a garage lift but I really struggled to replicate it. Someone must have driven many thousands of miles with the clamp not gripping the ball joint pin. I had to replace the whole hub carrier. Easy enough on a 1.1 or 1.2 Not so easy to find for a diesel or 100HP as they carry a bigger wheel bearing.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I had a worn bottom arm ball joint pin clamp. The issue was easy to find with the car on a garage lift but I really struggled to replicate it. Someone must have driven many thousands of miles with the clamp not gripping the ball joint pin. I had to replace the whole hub carrier. Easy enough on a 1.1 or 1.2 Not so easy to find for a diesel or 100HP as they carry a bigger wheel bearing.

That's an unusual one, not one you'd be particularly looking out for.

 

[koalar]

Lets diagnose the problem

We need to know what sound it makes

The fact it's only over large bumps can almost eliminate anything rotating such as wheel bearing

The fact it's not jiggling on rough roads means it's unlikely to be a drop link ball joint

Try pushing on the wheel



Compare side to side


Wiggle the steering wheel from side to side
While watching the rear suspension bush with a torch

Or




This is just the first most place

 

[Aad Doix]

Thanks alot for all the reactions, I do need find myself a crowbar (is that a jemmy?) or something to get pressure on suspension parts.
And visually checking the bushes, the one in the picture of the swinging arm not highlighted in Koalar's last post was pretty rough, that's the one I mentioned it could be better.

I will check and do so today and or later on this week (work and raising a kid keeps me busy some times) and keep you updated.

Kind regards,

Aad

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

the one in the picture of the swinging arm not highlighted in Koalar's last post was pretty rough, that's the one I mentioned it could be better.

You mean the slightly smaller bush? that's what I'd call the "front" bush. It's much less common to find that one worn out before the rear one (the one koalar circled) so I think you need to take a good look at the rear one. One thought that does occur to me is that, when a new arm is fitted, the bolt which goes through the front bush should only be fully tightened with the weight of the vehicle on the suspension - so it's not wound up when in it's "resting" normal position - If it's tightened with the suspension in "droop" ie when jacked off the ground, then the bush is "wound up" when the vehicle is back on the ground and this causes early failure. If your rear bush is in reasonable condition but the front one is poor, it might be that it was tightened before the vehicle was put back on it's wheels?

 

[ZaphodB]

I do need find myself a crowbar (is that a jemmy?) or something to get pressure on suspension parts.

Yes, it's what all the seasoned MOT testers use lol

A tenner should get you something from Toolstation/machinemart etc

Or get an oversized heavy duty flat head screwdriver

 

[koalar]

Turn the steering wheel so you can see ithe rear bush (blue circle)

Put a torch on it and get someone to quickly move the steering left to right

9 times out of 10 this is all you need to do

If that passes

Put a screw driver, or plank if wood anything, between the subframe and arm and lever it a bit, it will move a bit its mounted in rubber, but it should spring back to its original position instantly,

Push and pull the top of the wheel towards the rear of the car, try the other side there should be very little movement

It's rare you will need to go past these two test

You don't need to jack the car or buy any tools at this stage

Depending on the results we can fix or move on