Technical Fiat Panda 2006 steering wheel problem

[Marino4ga]

Hi All,

I need some help if you can please,

I own a Fiat Panda 56 plate, it is a petrol 1.2 engine with approx. 80k miles and the car has been fine with only minor issues throughout its life.

It has recently developed an issue where upon starting the steering icon warning light comes on or flickers and the steering sometimes goes very heavy and a clicking noise can be heard in parallel to the flicking. Connecting a OBD II code reader reveals no faults.

So after searching online and finding this forum and fellow owners experiencing similar issues we have now changed the battery, it was old anyway so no major loss however this didn’t seem to make a difference and the fault described above continues.

However, we have noticed some patterns where we are able to clear the fault by doing one of the following actions:
+ If the battery is disconnected from the vehicle for at least 5 minutes, when reconnected there is no fault for the first few starts after (perhaps for the rest of the day).
+ If when about to start, you wait till all the warning lights go off (ignition level) before cranking, and then crank the engine to start, typically the fault does not occur (it does on some rare occasions).
+ If when the steering light comes on, by turning on the dipped beam headlights, the fault often clears by itself.
+ If you start the car without waiting for the lights to go off, it normally always occurs.

All of these have me confused, I believe it must be an electrical issue but not sure where to look i.e. which grounds to ensure are clean etc.

Can anyone offer any advice or links, being an electrical steering system, most garage are not prepared to investigate this further although being an engineer am fairly comfortable with working on cars myself.

We have read replacing the steering parts (ECU / Motor / Torque Sensor etc) may resolve the issue. But am reluctant to spend any money on guesses until I have a clearer idea of what is happening. Besides if any of those was an issue would there be a fault code or not (I read somewhere on here there should be)? I also read another post which implies changing some parts of the steering means we would need to recalibrate the system, is this factually correct on this era of panda? If so, is it something you could do on the drive or would it need to go to a main dealer?

I look forward to your replies,

Many Thanks

 

[koalar]

on top of the negative battery clamp there's two or three cables bolted to it


take them off clean and put back

 

[koalar]

these need to be clean. Unbolt, scouring pad, and bolt back. A dab of petroleum jell will weather seal. Not essential but means it never needs doing again

clean also the top of the battery terminals and the inside of the connector. again a dab of jell is useful

make sure the wires aren't corroded


worth leaving on charge overnight. Batteries loose charge while in storage


might as well clean the earth to the right and in front of the battery. Not worth doing the one on the gearbox only does the starter motor and a few engine sensors. If its cranking will all the amps that requires and its starting fine it will be fine

 

[RalphM]

With engine running check you have 14v to 14.4V at the battery,
if much lower check the alternator.

 

[Marino4ga]

Hi all,

Thank you for your comments and thoughts.

I will take a look at the electrical points over the next few days. I know the battery terminals and connecting cables / terminals are clean as we did them when we changed the battery over.

I will have a look for the main earths and the condition of the cables connecting to the chassis. I am aware of one under the engine bay onto the main chassis rail but have not yet cleaned it. I will do this as well.

Will also check the voltage when the car is running. From history it needs a new battery every year or so, so maybe there is a tell tell sign in that.

Thank you for your help so far

 

[koalar]

Hi all,

Thank you for your comments and thoughts.

I will take a look at the electrical points over the next few days. I know the battery terminals and connecting cables / terminals are clean as we did them when we changed the battery over.

I will have a look for the main earths and the condition of the cables connecting to the chassis. I am aware of one under the engine bay onto the main chassis rail but have not yet cleaned it. I will do this as well.

Will also check the voltage when the car is running. From history it needs a new battery every year or so, so maybe there is a tell tell sign in that.

Thank you for your help so far

you need to unbolt them and physically scrub them even if they look clean.

the oxides (tarnish) aren't conductive

you can test them with a voltage drop test. But by the time you have done this you could have cleaned them several times over.

I'd be surprised if some or all of the problem isnt here. The steering earths via one of the leads under one of the nuts and the other is the lights. So when the lights are on its finding a different path.

 

[A3jeroen]

You will only find a stored fault if you connect to the steering computer. Not in the engine computer.
But as above: It's probably a currentproblem.

gr J

 

[Marino4ga]

You will only find a stored fault if you connect to the steering computer. Not in the engine computer.
But as above: It's probably a currentproblem.

gr J

Thank you. How can I connect to the steering computer? I can't find any information about this online.

 

[Marino4ga]

We will clean all the terminals again. Thank you very much guys

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thank you. How can I connect to the steering computer? I can't find any information about this online.

You need something like the Multiecuscan softwear or similar and suitable interconnects which will let you connect through the OBD port. https://www.multiecuscan.net/ A cheap OBD scanner won't do as it only connects to the engine controller.

 

[A3jeroen]

:yeahthat:

gr J

 

[DaveMcT]

Get a Yuasa HSB072 from Tanya Batteries. It costs about £60 delivered, has a five year warranty and will arrive the following day. Halfords to the same one for nearly double the price.

Alternators get tired over time. Despite a new battery, my wife's 1.2 had steering issues until the alternator was replaced then problem solved. So check the alternator voltage under load.

 

[koalar]

I have a feeling this thread will go round and round circles

reading the code will not tell you what you need to change

look through the old threads of which we have many. Torque sensor error is know to be caused also by a battery and is a known issue by Fiat.

Reading the battery volts while the engine is running. Will not always diagnose a faulty alternator or battery.

By far the easiest method is to physically clean the connectors whether they look clean or not

check the alternator belt isnt loose

and then substitute a known Good battery which is easy if you have a second car.

I am an electronics engineer, I have expensive test equipment, this is what I do.

There lots of misleading information in the threads. Some by me. I use to read the codes as the First step until I realised I was wasting my time.

I have been here dozens of times with multi cars, makes and models.

We have had one person with a faulty alternator, couple with torque sensor, couple with a reseat of the torque sensor connector. two with a recalibration, one with an earth problem, couple that never had a problem after leaving the battery on charge over night and dozens with a battery that I know of. Plus one that never got fixed.

I certainly wouldn't be buying batteries, alternators, steering columns on a whim, its can start to get expensive very quickly if you guess wrong.

 

[DaveMcT]

The OP did say he gets a new battery every year, hence my suggestion to get the Yuasa.

Koalar is right (1) Disconnect, clean and refit the battery terminals. (2) Do the jump lead test to prove the battery earth is OK. (3) swap the battery for a known good one. (4) make sure you have good system volts especially when the engine is cold. A cheap plug in ciggy lighter voltmeter is good enough.

You only need to look further when all the above fail to find anything.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The OP did say he gets a new battery every year, hence my suggestion to get the Yuasa.

Indeed he/she does, well every year or so to be precise. That is most unusual. One or maybe two due to defective or poor quality new batteries but one every year or so?

 

[Marino4ga]

Thank you guys for your comments. It is really appreciated. Over weekend the issue got worse. We had one fault code related to the battery so we swapped the battery to a known believed battery (but it wasn't new). We cleaned the terminals when we changed the battery and we will clean the individual positives and negatives to the main terminals of the battery once again. Swapping the battery seems like made a dramatic improvement, however we saw the light again but it turned itself off so possibly it is related to the standing battery. We took it for a drive to charge the battery and we didn't see the light for the rest of the journey. We will continue to monitor it.

We also checked the charging voltage before the journey with the Fluke meter which read 14.2V. We will check this again tomorrow as well. The plan is to remove a steering column cowling and clean the connectors with contact cleaner and reassemble. Is there any reason not to do this e.g. will it lose its calibration?

Also identified the ground behind the battery and it has a Delphi label on it (Part number 00468179840(CAVO MASSA 5NF). We believe it to be a ground cable which bolts into the shock absorber surround. I will try to attach a picture if I can.

We will check the alternator belt tension.

To clarify the battery comments - the battery swapped each year were from a known local scrapyard, not brand new. Thank you for the battery recommendation.

 

[Marino4ga]

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[Marino4ga]

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[fourbie]

Torque sensor error is know to be caused also by a battery and is a known issue by Fiat.

Can I ask what this is please - what effects it causes etc. ?

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

Would recommend a new 063 battery, still fits if you twist the battery strap and much cheaper than the cube batteries they normally take, paid around £50 for a new Varta C6 52ah for mine, scrapyard batteries can be a bit of a lottery! I also find that sometimes my steering light comes on at startup, but usually goes away within a few seconds, no faults I've noticed (apart from when my battery cable was loose and it s*** the bed on a roundabout ).