Technical Do I need to get my ECU reprogrammed/repaired?

[koalar]

Almost - the green and white on the cam would still be the other way around in terms of what's jointed into it.

Edit: no wait ignore me, i didn't see the dotted line indicating the white wire properly.

I'm gonna pop out on my lunch break and backprobe the cam/crank sensors to see if they pick up on engine rotation

You should have a working ambient temperature, just with the ignition turned on

It’s wired properly
It’s got power and ground


Check the part numbers are the same

No way of knowing if your scanners working properly

 

[WildFeraligatr]

You should have a working ambient temperature, just with the ignition turned on

It’s wired properly
It’s got power and ground


Check the part numbers are the same

No way of knowing if your scanners working properly

Assuming the part number is the one ending in 030 then yes, it's the same.

I'll ask around to see if any mates have an OBD scanner I can borrow, worst case scenario I can get my dad to post me his.

Any other next steps I can take for now?

 

[koalar]

Yes they are the same

Take the spark plugs off. It’s unlikely to fire but better save than sorry

Ignition on

If you put the black meter lead on the battery negative and the red on the CAM centre pin. As you turn the engine over by hand you should see it vary between 1 and 4 volts approximately

 

[WildFeraligatr]

Yes they are the same

Take the spark plugs off. It’s unlikely to fire but better save than sorry

Ignition on

If you put the black meter lead on the battery negative and the red on the CAM centre pin. As you turn the engine over by hand you should see it vary between 1 and 4 volts approximately

With it plugged in? So backprobing it I assume?

I'll give it a go.

 

[WildFeraligatr]

Oh or do you mean the center pin of the sensor while unplugged

 

[koalar]

With it plugged in? So backprobing it I assume?

I'll give it a go.

Yes plugged in

I will see if I can find a decent video

Scannerdanner has a lot of sensor testing

 

[WildFeraligatr]

Yes plugged in

I will see if I can find a decent video

Scannerdanner has a lot of sensor testing

Ok I'll give it a try after work

 

[koalar]

 

[WildFeraligatr]

Just checked the cam signal wire while hand cranking and no change from ~5V

Looks like we found the issue! But will check the signal output on the cam sensor off the new engine (even though it isn't compatible with the ECU)

The cam pulley is definitely moving while cranking the crankshaft pulley so this seems to be the problem!

 

[WildFeraligatr]

Put the 'new' cam sensor (off the new engine) on and it seems to just jump between nearly 0V and 5V rather than between 1 and 4 as suggested. No middle ground, just 0 or 5 and it switches with about a half turn of the crank pulley.

Just in case this sparks any bright ideas

 

[koalar]

Put the 'new' cam sensor (off the new engine) on and it seems to just jump between nearly 0V and 5V rather than between 1 and 4 as suggested. No middle ground, just 0 or 5 and it switches with about a half turn of the crank pulley.

Just in case this sparks any bright ideas

That’s working correctly

 

[WildFeraligatr]

That’s working correctly

Right - new 'old' cam sensor it is then!

I'll post here once I've got an update.

 

[koalar]

If you back probe the crank sensor two leads with the multimeter set to AC volts it should register a bit. While cranking. There’s no great test with a multimeter

 

[WildFeraligatr]

I did test both crank sensors for resistance with my multimeter and both came out ok, and tested for voltage outside of the engine while waving magnetic stuff near the end so I'm confident theyre ok.

I'm a little worried that the 'new' cam sensor drops in a little deeper on the engine because the cam pulley is smaller on the newer engines but I may just be being paranoid (i hope)

 

[WildFeraligatr]

Turns out my paranoia was right - I went out this morning to give the 'old' cam sensor a wave next to some magnetic material and the signal wire jumps in voltage.

Checked both cam sensors next to each other and it looks like the 'new' one is a bit longer - the seating on the engine head is also a bit thicker (see pics). So the 'old' cam sensor isn't reaching far enough into the engine to pick up the cam pulley and give a signal.

From what you guys have said before, my understanding is that the cam pulleys aren't interchangeable - I'm going to go have a look after work but I'm assuming the timing spokes (the bits that activate the cam sensor) are different between the two pulleys as well, which is what flagged up the initial P0335 error code (or whatever it was). As the cam signal wire connects in to the MAP signal wire, I would assume this is also why the barometric pressure/ambient air temp sensor isn't reading anything, because the cam sensor is keeping the line at 5v.

If this is the case, then I guess my only option is to research how to get the ECU to 'learn' the new timing settings (again, assuming this would mean remapping the ECU).

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[koalar]

One has a keyed camshaft and pulley

The other is not

I doubt anyone has tried. Not many people have a couple of engines knocking around to try

 

[WildFeraligatr]

Bit of a further update.

I decided to buy and test a new cam sensor just in case the one that came with the new engine was faulty. My OBD reader is showing an RPM reading now! But this doesn't seem to be getting picked up on the dash, and I'm getting error codes P0335 and U1600 again/still. The reader is showing ambient air temp as available but no data is coming through - same with fuel pressure. Barometric pressure is still showing unavailable.

Tempted to buy a new MAP sensor and chuck that on to see if that solves anything.

 

[koalar]

Bit of a further update.

I decided to buy and test a new cam sensor just in case the one that came with the new engine was faulty. My OBD reader is showing an RPM

Progress. But how do we have two faulty CKP sensors. The old engine was working except for the head gasket. There’s only two wire that go to the ECU and is independent of any other sensor.

reading now! But this doesn't seem to be getting picked up on the dash, and I'm getting error codes P0335

P0335 isn’t surprising different engine with different timing

and U1600 again/still.

U codes are make and model specific. On the Ducato it’s the immobiliser it doesn’t mean it’s the same on the Panda. U1600 is a common error read on the Panda. Usually after a flat battery.

The reader is showing ambient air temp as available but no data is coming through - same with fuel pressure. Barometric pressure is still showing unavailable.

Ambient and barometric should both read from ignition on.

As fas as I know there is no fuel pressure sensor on a petrol Panda

Tempted to buy a new MAP sensor and chuck that on to see if that solves anything.

I’d be surprised if to sensors are faulty. Maybe a scanner problem

Now you have a RPM signal at the ECU are you getting a spark

 

[WildFeraligatr]

Progress. But how do we have two faulty CKP sensors. The old engine was working except for the head gasket. There’s only two wire that go to the ECU and is independent of any other sensor.

CKP meaning crankshaft position sensor? Couldn't tell you. I will pop out later and check the signal is reaching the ECU pin while hand cranking the engine

P0335 isn’t surprising different engine with different timing

I'm surprised it's a P0335, I would have thought a timing issue would flag up a different code rather than a circuit error?

U codes are make and model specific. On the Ducato it’s the immobiliser it doesn’t mean it’s the same on the Panda. U1600 is a common error read on the Panda. Usually after a flat battery.

I did recharge the battery but even after clearing the code and trying to start it the same code comes up again.

Ambient and barometric should both read from ignition on.

I've ordered a new MAP sensor in case this is the issue.

As fas as I know there is no fuel pressure sensor on a petrol Panda

Think you're right, I can't find one on any diagrams and not mentioned in the Haynes manual

I’d be surprised if to sensors are faulty. Maybe a scanner problem

Now you have a RPM signal at the ECU are you getting a spark

Still no spark, but I only checked with one plug (albeit a spare off the old engine so should be working). I can get my dad to post me his big fancy OBD reader to see if that reveals anything.

 

[WildFeraligatr]

Also - I think there was no RPM signal before because of what I mentioned about the length of the cam position sensor, it wasn't reaching deep enough in the engine to pick up on the cam pulley.

If it is an issue with the 'new' timing not being recognised in the ECU, how can I fix that? Is it a case of getting the ECU remapped?