General Corroded & severely weakened.. or not?

[partho00]

Our 04 panda just failed mot on a few points. Feels like they have been a bit harsh with their inspection and want another opinion. Failures are all on suspension and exhaust parts which is convenient as I took it to a tyre, exhaust and suspension garage….

To me this just looks like a bit of surface rust on the springs. Thoughts?

 

[partho00]

Apologies for double uploading the pictures.

 

[jackwhoo]

Arguing with the tester won't achieve anything.
Either take the springs off ,get all the rust and dirt off and then paint them , or fit new springs. New springs are not expensive.
If they have quoted 99 pounds per side to replace springs that is expensive.

 

[partho00]

Arguing with the tester won't achieve anything.
Either take the springs off ,get all the rust and dirt off and then paint them , or fit new springs. New springs are not expensive.
If they have quoted 99 pounds per side to replace springs that is expensive.

Thanks Jackwhoo. I don’t plan to get into an argument with them. But if it’s a fair fail then I keep going back and using them (as I have done for the last few years). If they are finding problems that don’t exist just to get money then I’ll avoid in the future.

 

[partho00]

After a very quick run with a wire brush

 

[MLW]

By pure chance I have just done my daughters rear springs. At the last MOT I have an advisory for corroded and weakened rear springs. This happened before 2 years ago. The tester said 'just clean them up and Waxoyl them'.
Today I had both rear wheels off and a big wire brush session on the springs (mostly at the bottom) and the carrier at the bottom that they sit in. Then a big Waxoyl on it all and particularly the circular carrier. It has a hole in the middle but seems to hold water. They now look good for 2-3 years. Go to another MOT station.

 

[jackwhoo]

After a very quick run with a wire brush

Hi,
That's a huge improvement keep at it, a retest pass is within your grasp.
Best wishes
Jack

 

[varesecrazy]

Yes they were pretty rusty..
But I get "advisory notices" on my old springs..

A fail is awkward.. That implies imminent failure

 

[jrkitching]

Some testers are more cautious than others, and corrosion weakened springs can and do break. I can't say it's an unfair fail, though most testers I know would have let this go through. A different tester might have given you an advisory on the springs, and a fail on one of the other advisories.

On a near-twenty year old car, it's simply not economic to replace everything that might be a marginal fail before an MOT. You just have to put it in and take it from there.

I've found from experience that testing stations which don't do repairs (like this one) are more likely to give the benefit of the doubt on marginal items.

All that said, having seen those pictures, and knowing the structurally weak points on the Panda, I'd actually be more concerned about the state of the rear spring pans.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

you only have to look at springs which have broken to know that they will break with considerably less rust than that. It only takes the surface of the spring to start pitting and a crack can start to develop.

If they fail it and they are not happy with your wire brush job there is not a lot you can do about it as it’s a safety item and they will have vosa on their side.

 

[jrkitching]

If they fail it and they are not happy with your wire brush job there is not a lot you can do about it as it’s a safety item and they will have vosa on their side.

I'd agree; now that it's had a fail recorded, there's no point resubmitting it anywhere without fitting new springs. You can get them from shop4parts for under £60 a pair with the 10% forum discount for donated members.

Even on an old, well-corroded rear beam, the ease with which you can do this job just might surprise you. £100 a side is basically a ripoff price.

 

[varesecrazy]

I'd agree; now that it's had a fail recorded, there's no point resubmitting it anywhere without fitting new springs. You can get them from shop4parts for under £60 a pair with the 10% forum discount for donated members.

Even on an old, well-corroded rear beam, the ease with which you can do this job just might surprise you. £100 a side is basically a ripoff price.

My Guide took around 90 minutes.. With repainting the pans And taking photos

 

[partho00]

My Guide took around 90 minutes.. With repainting the pans And taking photos

Where would someone find this guide??

 

[jrkitching]

Where would someone find this guide??

Panda REAR Suspension replacement

With the Panda in 1st gear, and chocks around the FRONT wheels. I use a trolley jack on the centre of the rear suspension beam to raise the complete REAR of the Panda, then I used 2 x axlestands - with wooden load spreaders on the 2 x rear...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[koalar]

Unfortunately it's now a fail

In my opinion it was hash to fail them, the paint often peels off, I have run them 5 years or more with half the paint peeled off, you can't predict when they are going to fail, springs with all their paint on them can and do still fail. I have had several fail over the years, some nearly new

Now it's electronically flagged you have no option but to change them, cleaning them does not address the cross section reduced part of the fail

Napa branded ones are around £36 the pair and two bolts to fit as long as you have axle stands

Just undo the top shock bolt both sides and drop them out.

 

[koalar]

I"ve found from experience that testing stations which don't do repairs (like this one) are more likely to give the benefit of the doubt on marginal items.

Correct
Garages that aren't interested in doing repairs themselves are the way to go. If it's not safe, it's a fail.

All that said, having seen those pictures, and knowing the structurally weak points on the Panda, I'd actually be more concerned about the state of the rear spring pans.

Correct if caught early enough it shouldn't ever become a problem

I have noticed some garages are less relieble than they use to be since the pandemic

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I don't think it was all that harsh for them to have failed the springs. The pictures show the paint'powder coat to be seperated from the coil in places, there is a clear hole if you like in the coating and the state of the spring inside of that is not clear to the MOT inspector, its not their job or within their remit to go poking around and trying to see if there are holes or cracks in the metal beyond that coating but the coating would not have seperated like that unless there was some pretty significant surface rust, So they did only what they can do.

Had they been cleaned up and all that loose coating removed before it was submitted for testing its possible they would have passed.

As other's have pointed out the rear beam with the cups/pans which the springs sit on top of, tend to rust on panda's very badly to the extent the back of the car can collapse. The 3rd picture at the top of this thread shows some pretty significant rust on those pans which you really need to address sooner rather than later, otherwise you're looking a big bill or a nasty accident, which ever comes first.

 

[MrMagoo]

MOT testers know this is a "weak" area on Panda. I had an advisory the previous year, but with a thorough clean up and Waxoyl applied it looks fab! The MOT tester was impressed with my work at the last MOT test.
Waxoyl - good stuff if used properly.

 

[koalar]

MOT testers know this is a "weak" area on Panda. I had an advisory the previous year, but with a thorough clean up and Waxoyl applied it looks fab! The MOT tester was impressed with my work at the last MOT test.
Waxoyl - good stuff if used properly.

That's exactly how it should be

Until recently even a broken spring was allowed as long as it was still Seating properly

In my book seriously weakened is not surface rust or flaking paint

Defect	Category
(a) A spring: (i) insecurely attached to chassis or axle (ii) with fixings loose to the extent that relative movement is visible	Major Dangerous
(b) A spring: (i) or spring component fractured or seriously weakened (ii) main leaf fractured	Major Dangerous
(c) A spring: (i) missing (ii) missing and directional control affected	Major Dangerous
(d) A spring: (i) with an unsafe modification (ii) modified so that the suspension is inoperative

 

[bugsymike]

At the end of the day it is down to the opinion of the tester, they do look a little grotty, personally when I was a tester many years ago I would probably have advised them.
However you don't know what other circumstances might have affected his decision, it could be VOSA are watching him because of a previous judgement and as a result he is covering his back.
There can sometimes be a fine line between "over zealous and negligent"