Does or can anyone confirm if the parts are interchangable? I know the rear beam isnt a fit but other stuff like springs, discs etc. Are they interchangable. My old Axgt was modified with saxo Vts stuff. Was hoping fiat is the same.
General Fiat 500 Suspension on 100hp 169
- Thread starter Baggey
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General Fiat 500 Suspension on 100hp 169
Done a little research and the elearn manual shows triangle mounts just like the fiat 500? Anyone please?
Fiat spared no expense on the 100HP suspension
It's a well balanced setup, for sporty road use
Every part of the 100hp suspension is unique
Top mount
Shocks
Bump stops
Arms
Springs
Axle
Drop links
Drive shafts
Most 100HP now normally have some wrong parts fitted, cheaper struts for example or 500 or coupe bump stops
Putting it back to standard, is costly
The brakes were off the shelf parts and well up to the job, 100HP and light car yes you can mix and match, the 1.2 has been fitted with Stilo 1.8 16V front and Punto HGT rear, on cup cars I don't see why you upgrade the brakes that are already upgraded and then have to pay an insurance premium
It does get more complicated with the 100HP as the front drive shafts have different number of splines which means you need the matching hubs for the discs, still doable but you have to raid from the diesel lineup
It's a well balanced setup, for sporty road use
Every part of the 100hp suspension is unique
Top mount
Shocks
Bump stops
Arms
Springs
Axle
Drop links
Drive shafts
Most 100HP now normally have some wrong parts fitted, cheaper struts for example or 500 or coupe bump stops
Putting it back to standard, is costly
The brakes were off the shelf parts and well up to the job, 100HP and light car yes you can mix and match, the 1.2 has been fitted with Stilo 1.8 16V front and Punto HGT rear, on cup cars I don't see why you upgrade the brakes that are already upgraded and then have to pay an insurance premium
It does get more complicated with the 100HP as the front drive shafts have different number of splines which means you need the matching hubs for the discs, still doable but you have to raid from the diesel lineup
Hi, Im not fussed about keeping it stock OEM. If i can fit abarth 500 parts for me thats the way to go. I remember when i did my Axgt. Rear beam axle was complete saxo VTS all i had to do was change the hande brake bracket in the floor pan to accept the cables. So im thinking of purchasing a complete 500c rear axel and bolting it on.
When i did the front on my old Axgt i had to put all the top mount stuff onto the saxo struts. which bolted to the axgt drive shaft. the sline needed milling to fit the hub and i just did it up tight. never had no problems. So im asking can i pretty much do the same stuff with the PANDA?
If anyone can help and is also interested i could do a thread on doing all what im talking about. My panda is in show condition. but underneath its pretty fooked. But wont be when im finished.
Kind Regards Baggey
There are quite a few people with 100hp to Abarth conversions around now, and some of those guys seem to be using Abarth 500 suspension parts.
IIRC there's a YouTube series from a guy called "the bearded wonder" showing some or all of the parts fitted to his 100hp... Worth a view, or even contacting?
IIRC there's a YouTube series from a guy called "the bearded wonder" showing some or all of the parts fitted to his 100hp... Worth a view, or even contacting?
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Fiat did as little as possible to make the 100HP suspension
The springs are shorter and harder and front struts are different though nobody can tell me what that actually is. The rear axle is almost exactly the same has different brake mounts and the ABS sensor sits at 12 o'clock.
The front 500 front subframe and bottom arms are different to 169. Both axles are 50mm wider (25mm each side). The wider width will not work with 100HP. The wheels would poke out of the wheel arches and probably foul over bumps.
Front road springs are shorter than other models and sit with almost no compression into the struts (they were 100HP spec). Mine actually failed an MOT, because the tester said the springs were loose (it had passed the previous year). I bought new 100HP springs to find zero difference in length but the new paint clearly impressed him and it passed this time.
Rear springs on 100HP are ridiculously hard. I got sick of the car skipping about so fitted 500 springs. These are softer and caused the back end to sit low so I used spring top rubbers at both ends. Body roll increase a little, but the car handled considerably better for 90% of the time. I accepted the compromise.
The springs are shorter and harder and front struts are different though nobody can tell me what that actually is. The rear axle is almost exactly the same has different brake mounts and the ABS sensor sits at 12 o'clock.
The front 500 front subframe and bottom arms are different to 169. Both axles are 50mm wider (25mm each side). The wider width will not work with 100HP. The wheels would poke out of the wheel arches and probably foul over bumps.
Front road springs are shorter than other models and sit with almost no compression into the struts (they were 100HP spec). Mine actually failed an MOT, because the tester said the springs were loose (it had passed the previous year). I bought new 100HP springs to find zero difference in length but the new paint clearly impressed him and it passed this time.
Rear springs on 100HP are ridiculously hard. I got sick of the car skipping about so fitted 500 springs. These are softer and caused the back end to sit low so I used spring top rubbers at both ends. Body roll increase a little, but the car handled considerably better for 90% of the time. I accepted the compromise.
For clarity, I'm not saying it's a good idea to do it, just that some people appear to have done it, and seem to have made it work somehow.
Other than the width differences DaveMcT mentions above, the front subframe from the Abarth has an extra 2 bolts in the middle at the rear, which bolt in to a plate which the Panda doesn't have. The bottom arms also have an extra bracket which the Panda doesn't.
I believe these are part of the crash protection changes that Fiat made for the 500, which include the extra bars at the front of the subframe.
Other than the width differences DaveMcT mentions above, the front subframe from the Abarth has an extra 2 bolts in the middle at the rear, which bolt in to a plate which the Panda doesn't have. The bottom arms also have an extra bracket which the Panda doesn't.
I believe these are part of the crash protection changes that Fiat made for the 500, which include the extra bars at the front of the subframe.
500 arbarth rear brakes just bolt on
May or may not need new pipes
May or may not need new pipes
The Alfa Romeo brembo 4 piston caliper and 305 disc has been used to replace the original front 257mm discs and single piston caliper
It bolts straight on
I don't know if longer flexible hoses are needed
I don't know if they clear standard size wheels
It bolts straight on
I don't know if longer flexible hoses are needed
I don't know if they clear standard size wheels
FK coil overs for the Abarth 500, in the panda are known to ride rubbish
bilstein B12 shocks specifically designed for the panda and eibach springs would in my opinion a better option if you want to upgrade, some people even regret doing this on UK roads
There some camera footage at the end of this video
Of the b12 pro kit
The drop link needs to be changed from the 100HP one to the standard panda one if it's not already been done
Original 100HP below
Standard panda below
bilstein B12 shocks specifically designed for the panda and eibach springs would in my opinion a better option if you want to upgrade, some people even regret doing this on UK roads
There some camera footage at the end of this video
Of the b12 pro kit
The drop link needs to be changed from the 100HP one to the standard panda one if it's not already been done
Original 100HP below
Standard panda below
Hi.
If you have any issues with insurance at all for any modifications / changes then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.
If you have any issues with insurance at all for any modifications / changes then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.
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I fitted Alfa 147 brakes to my 100HP. They would have been more powerful but the car is not heavy enough to benefit. I went back to standard 100HP brakes.
Its already with you
To keep it as good as it was originally designed
You have to think about things like where the instant centre is and how it effects ackermans angle
Which would involve changing basically everything, for example the steering rack is a different length
Otherwise you will introduce tyre scrub and bump steer, of course you can eliminate most of this by making the suspension rock solid so the lower suspension arm isn't moving in an arc, but then this has a knock on adverse effect on ride
For example if you put the wider axle from 500 on the rear it reduces the weight transfer at the rear, making it have more grip, at the rear but in a car that already understeers overall ballance is worse, more understeer
Now when it's raining, the opposite happens, normally the light end rear of the car is following the dry line made by the fronts, now you have lost some of that and increasing the chances of oversteer
Of cause if you only ever drive at 50% of what the car is capable of it will not make any noticeable difference, but we all can get caught out by say a diesel spill on a wet road
There are more predictable way of adding width such as adding hub-centric wheel spacers, but even this will effect the electric self centering steering, bearing wear and stability although it may or may not be noticeable, I suspect t would be fine as long as its only reasonable amount
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Wider track, will not give a better ride, regardless of what Google may say
It has some advantages
Allows wider tires, larger contact patch increased grip in the dry
Reduced weight transfer.
Lowers the roll centre
In an already short car, straight-line stability will be worse, although I doubt a couple of cm would be noticeable
Increased drag
polyurethane bushes, have different harness, you want road specification ones, not the super hard race ones they have been fitted by a few on here, they will be better to advise you on advantages
@irc @cooperman
I didn't know there are different types of stiffness in them? I been looking at Godflex or Powerflex ones. The reason to put them on for me was the fact they'll be longer lasting. Also i found a company selling front wishbones with bushes already pressed in.
Powerfliex for example sell road and race for the panda 169
Road generally purple
Race generally black
You don't want to use the race unless the roads near you are flat and smooth like a race track, or you are going to use the car mainly on a race track
I believe IRC fitted some in 2016 on their diesel, and is still very active on this forum, they will give you an honest assessment of the pros and cons from real day to day driving
There are different grades of polybushes for different applications. Trackday cars and full-out race cars use bushes with almost no movement. On a road car they are seriously uncomfortable and also tend to transmit more force to other components.
Even "road grade" polybushes feel stiffer than original "rubber" bushes. I tried some in my 100hp when bottom arms were on back-order and they were OK, but definitely less compliant than standard. I swapped them out for new bottom arms when they were back in stock. I now change out the rear bushes if the ball joints are OK - standard 100hp spec bushes are available separately quite cheaply and I have a press.
I have purple Powerflex bottom arm rear bushes in my diesel Panda, and they are also OK. But they are MUCH stiffer than the standard Panda bushes, which reduces comfort significantly. On the other hand, they do last longer than the standard bushes on the diesel.
Personally, I think Fiat got the 100hp dynamics just about right with the factory-fit equipment - an unmolested one with fresh suspension is great fun to drive and puts a big smile on most faces.
Tired bushes, springs and dampers make it soggy and crashy.
Aftermarket gear usually makes them "feel faster", but handle badly, feel uncomfortable and, in my opinion, misses the whole point of the 100hp. Its a small, light car with just enough power to be fun, with closer ratio gears to keep the driving experience interesting, while still being good for a trip to IKEA for a surprising amount of flat-pack furniture (or a washing machine etc.).
However, that's only my opinion, and it's not my place to criticise what other people do with their cars.
The biggest problem if going the "original spec" route is identifying and obtaining the correct parts, as many suppliers seem to think that the 1.4 Natural Power is the same as the 100hp (it isn't) or that "normal" Panda parts are the same (they mostly aren't). I've found that using part numbers from EPER and avoiding online "compatibility checkers" is the only way to be sure.
Even "road grade" polybushes feel stiffer than original "rubber" bushes. I tried some in my 100hp when bottom arms were on back-order and they were OK, but definitely less compliant than standard. I swapped them out for new bottom arms when they were back in stock. I now change out the rear bushes if the ball joints are OK - standard 100hp spec bushes are available separately quite cheaply and I have a press.
I have purple Powerflex bottom arm rear bushes in my diesel Panda, and they are also OK. But they are MUCH stiffer than the standard Panda bushes, which reduces comfort significantly. On the other hand, they do last longer than the standard bushes on the diesel.
Personally, I think Fiat got the 100hp dynamics just about right with the factory-fit equipment - an unmolested one with fresh suspension is great fun to drive and puts a big smile on most faces.
Tired bushes, springs and dampers make it soggy and crashy.
Aftermarket gear usually makes them "feel faster", but handle badly, feel uncomfortable and, in my opinion, misses the whole point of the 100hp. Its a small, light car with just enough power to be fun, with closer ratio gears to keep the driving experience interesting, while still being good for a trip to IKEA for a surprising amount of flat-pack furniture (or a washing machine etc.).
However, that's only my opinion, and it's not my place to criticise what other people do with their cars.
The biggest problem if going the "original spec" route is identifying and obtaining the correct parts, as many suppliers seem to think that the 1.4 Natural Power is the same as the 100hp (it isn't) or that "normal" Panda parts are the same (they mostly aren't). I've found that using part numbers from EPER and avoiding online "compatibility checkers" is the only way to be sure.
