General Corroded & severely weakened.. or not?

[partho00]

Just in case anyone comes across this post who’s having a similar problem in the future, I thought I’d include the outcome.
Rubbed down the springs and took the car to a different test centre and honestly explained it had failed its last mot but I felt it was a bit harsh. They offered to re-test and give me unbiased results (they don’t do repairs).
It passed with just two advisories (both front break discs worn).
Lost £30 on initial mot but saved £300 in unnecessary work. Learnt a valuable lesson.

Cheers for all the advice every who replied!

 

[vexorg]

I'd still change the rear springs

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Our 04 panda just failed mot on a few points. Feels like they have been a bit harsh with their inspection and want another opinion. Failures are all on suspension and exhaust parts which is convenient as I took it to a tyre, exhaust and suspension garage….

To me this just looks like a bit of surface rust on the springs. Thoughts?

Colour me unsurprised that they were hot on the condition of suspension then. I don't think it helped that you had a list of Advisories and (I have zero evidence for this nest statement) creates a picture in the Tester's mind where the benefit of the doubt doesn't go in your favour.

I got caught out badly (and expensively) like this when I started running cars privately and too it to a particular garage for an MOT. Now I either take it to the Local Authority Bay, or a pure MOT Centre, never someone who will complete the work it has just failed you on.

Ah, just noticed your follow-up post (Useful to know outcomes, thanks) and feel vindicated

 

[bugsymike]

Colour me unsurprised that they were hot on the condition of suspension then. I don't think it helped that you had a list of Advisories and (I have zero evidence for this nest statement) creates a picture in the Tester's mind where the benefit of the doubt doesn't go in your favour.

I got caught out badly (and expensively) like this when I started running cars privately and too it to a particular garage for an MOT. Now I either take it to the Local Authority Bay, or a pure MOT Centre, never someone who will complete the work it has just failed you on.

Ah, just noticed your follow-up post (Useful to know outcomes, thanks) and feel vindicated

Before I retired I benefited from the actions of "over zealous" Mot Testers at Main Dealers when new customers came to me as a direct result of being stripped by large Toyota and Nissan Dealerships, so it isn't just the "Fast fit Centres" though I do agree many of them can be guilty.
Many years ago when a certain well known fast fit franchise came to town a young mechanic I knew was tempted by the wage offered along with bonus etc. He left within a week finding he couldn't live with himself under those conditions, he was told that every customer who came onto the premises had to spend at least £80 regardless of what they came in for, even a puncture. I know that doesn't sound a lot of money now, but this was in 1980!
I had a elderly customer with a Austin Mini, I had just given it a full service and then taken it to a independent Mot Station where it passed with no issues. As I had pointed out the spare wheel had a slow leak she drove it into the local National Tyres Depot and was sat in the office whilst the did the repair, shortly she was called to her vehicle where the "mechanic/fitter? had noted" that both front shock absorbers were leaking badly and they offered to fit them while she waited, fortunately she declined and brought the car back to me and sure enough both front shock absorbers were soaking wet, on closer inspection the "leak" was found to be WD40!!!

 

[AndyRKett]

I'd still change the rear springs

This ^^^

Lost £30 on initial mot but saved £300 in unnecessary work. Learnt a valuable lesson.

Its not like they failed the springs when they were in tip top, brand new condition.

They are still rusty and having cleaned the paint off them and tidied the appearance up is not going to have fixed any cracks that might have developed.

They are still rusty, the surface of the metal is still significantly pitted, so while you might have got it though an MOT, I would still change the springs. and I wouldn't call changing the springs "unnecessary work"

Rear springs for a Panda are cheap and very easy to replace for anyone wit basic DIY skills, just get them replaced, I don't know why anyone would penny pinch over a safety item like this.

 

[partho00]

This ^^^

Its not like they failed the springs when they were in tip top, brand new condition.

They are still rusty and having cleaned the paint off them and tidied the appearance up is not going to have fixed any cracks that might have developed.

They are still rusty, the surface of the metal is still significantly pitted, so while you might have got it though an MOT, I would still change the springs. and I wouldn't call changing the springs "unnecessary work"

Rear springs for a Panda are cheap and very easy to replace for anyone wit basic DIY skills, just get them replaced, I don't know why anyone would penny pinch over a safety item like this.

£300 might be pennies to you, but it’s a lot of money to me. I work full time and have a list of DIY jobs so long I’m not sure when I’ll get them done, so could do without a cold weekend under the car with my very basic skills and tools to pass a mot.
Now it’s passed and I know it’s a potential future issue I’ll monitor and look at getting them done as / when I can.
But I get your point and do want to make sure the car is safe to drive!

 

[bugsymike]

With the state of the roads these days springs often fail with no corrosion.
Wandering off topic slightly, many years ago as a foreman and Mot Tester I failed a ladies car for a rusted brake pipe.
A few days later I had an irate man in my face waving a shiny metal brake pipe that he had polished to within an inch of it's life, I picked it up in both hands and moved once and it snapped in half as I knew it would!
When I pointed out to him that he obviously didn't value his wife's life very highly, for some reason that increased the level of irritation, even though he knew I was right.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

With the state of the roads these days springs often fail with no corrosion.
Wandering off topic slightly, many years ago as a foreman and Mot Tester I failed a ladies car for a rusted brake pipe.
A few days later I had an irate man in my face waving a shiny metal brake pipe that he had polished to within an inch of it's life, I picked it up in both hands and moved once and it snapped in half as I knew it would!
When I pointed out to him that he obviously didn't value his wife's life very highly, for some reason that increased the level of irritation, even though he knew I was right.

Did the surgeons manage to remove the pipe?

 

[bugsymike]

When I failed vehicles I felt there was a very good reason, but often I would pass but include many advisories I had noted, not to generate business but merely to give the customer an early warning of impending work so they could budget etc.
Later in my own business I would mention on the bottom of the invoice when servicing, items to be aware of in the future or if more urgent ring them to let them know. Invariably my regular customers trusted me and gave me the go ahead saying I didn't need to ring, I did it more for my peace of mind.
One time I spoke to the husband of my customer saying about some leaking brake cylinders, he went off on a rant about rip off garages, so I said the car is on the ramp stripped down, come and inspect it now!
He came down with his wife, they both looked at the car and she proceeded to "tear him off a strip" telling him quite rightly she trusted me!
This is why I never made much money but many of my customer I had known for well over twenty years or more.

 

[jrkitching]

I'd agree; now that it's had a fail recorded, there's no point resubmitting it anywhere without fitting new springs.

I'm pleased to have been proved wrong on this occasion.

Lost £30 on initial mot

£30 would have been a huge red flag to me.

There's no way a garage can show much of a profit if they are just doing MOT's at £30 a time.

But picking up £330 for an MOT and fitting a couple of rear springs is very profitable.

It doesn't take a genius to work out what their business model is.

£300 might be pennies to you, but it’s a lot of money to me.

I'd agree; that's a lot of money just for a couple of rear springs. It really is an easy job, and would take a competent mechanic minutes, not hours.

Generally, I like to fix any advisories from the last MOT at the very latest before taking it for the next one.

Treat the advisory as buying you some time.

In your position, I'd do this myself, on a nice day when I didn't have too much of a backlog of other jobs, no later than a couple of months before its next MOT is due. That way, it'll be a nice, relaxed easy job with no pressure. Leave it any longer, and it'll become a 'front of head' problem again just before its next MOT is due.

 

[koalar]

Nearly new with no rust snap especially in winter

I have had two snap in the last couple of decades, Neither were rusty

One was a merc a class after hitting a pot hole hard

The other was a suzuki alto, just reversing out of a drive slowly


But rusty springs are very common whether a mountain bike, motor bike, car or lorry

A good percentage of cars over 10 years old will have surface rust on the springs

Most people just don't notice and does not fall under a MOT fail.

For nearly £200 you can buy a set for an Alfa from a well respect garage

Unless it's cracked, fractured, or corroded such that the cross sectional area is reduced to seriously weakening it Its no different to the majority of cars on the road


£300 is rediculous, for two springs, two bolts and less than 10 minuites

I can buy them for £20 each, without a trade account

 

[AndyRKett]

£300 might be pennies to you, but it’s a lot of money to me. I work full time and have a list of DIY jobs so long I’m not sure when I’ll get them done, so could do without a cold weekend under the car with my very basic skills and tools to pass a mot.
Now it’s passed and I know it’s a potential future issue I’ll monitor and look at getting them done as / when I can.
But I get your point and do want to make sure the car is safe to drive!

I might expect to pay £300 for the rear springs on my golf or Countryman if I were to take it to a garage, but on a panda, that amount is ridiculous and easy for any DIYer to do themselves (as has been pointed out no end of times now.

If you shop around you can probably get the springs for around £30 a side so £60 all in. You spent a lot of time crawling around under the car to clean up the springs that were there, you might as well removed 2 bolts, changed out the springs and put two bolts back in. So while you keep saying £300 is a lot of money, you will still ultimately need to change the springs and by doing it yourself you could save £240 on what you keep quoting.

You have a fail on the system now, the springs could break any time now, leaving you to have to fork out in an emergency to get the car fixed, or come the next MOT it fails again and leaves you reaching for the wire brush again.

Why not just change the springs and be done with it. At least it will give you some confidence that the car isn't going to let you down.

Also the rear beam on these cars is known to rust and fail so if the springs are badly rusted then chances are so is the rear beam so its a chance to clean any rust off and put some rust treatment on and maybe a coat of paint, to make sure your car will keep working for you, for years to come without sudden and unexpected bills.

 

[Shuggie]

My 2009 Dynamic Eco had quite badly corroded rear springs and axle. I cleaned up, treated and painted the axle (with Raptor flexible bed paint) - it should now be good for years. A set of replacement Ridex springs from Autodoc were so cheap (much less than today's price) that it was not worth my time trying to clean up the old springs. What really surprised me was the improvement in ride quality with the new springs, so notwithstanding any safety considerations I would very much recommend changing old, rusty springs for new ones.

 

[Yolanda]

Just in case anyone comes across this post who’s having a similar problem in the future, I thought I’d include the outcome.
Rubbed down the springs and took the car to a different test centre and honestly explained it had failed its last mot but I felt it was a bit harsh. They offered to re-test and give me unbiased results (they don’t do repairs).
It passed with just two advisories (both front break discs worn).
Lost £30 on initial mot but saved £300 in unnecessary work. Learnt a valuable lesson.

Cheers for all the advice every who replied!

Its very helpful to all of us when the OP lets us now the final outcome of the problem, thanks for that and I'm glad you got it sorted.