Technical Awkward Panda Spark Plugs

[JAMLAX]

Yesterday, I made an initial attempt to check (and replace if necessary) the spark plugs on my recently acquired 2004 Fiat Panda 1.2.
I successfully removed only one HT lead from the plug on the right hand side (i.e. the plug nearest to the timing belt).
Next, I carefully unscrewed the spark plug and satisfied myself it was in good condition.
However, my efforts to remove the three remaining HT leads from the other spark plugs were unsuccessful.

Any helpful suggestions will be appreciated - rather than me resorting to full brute force and ignorance to release these stubbornly stuck HT leads?

 

[Yolanda]

Dialectric grease helps (not expensive on eBay) put a blob in each lead before pushing down on the plug, makes removal much easier.
For those who don't know the grease is an electrical conductor so it doesn't impair current flow.

 

[ZaphodB]

Dialectric grease
For those who don't know the grease is an electrical conductor so it doesn't impair current flow.

I think you'll find it's quite the opposite , it's an electrical insulator (AKA NON-conductive - which is a very good thing in the presence of HT, preventing HT leak/tracking along the inside of the boot to the outside world)

 

[Mike1alike]

1. What is dielectric grease?
   Dielectric grease is a silicone-based, non-hardening grease used in electrical connectors to lubricate the pins and keep moisture, dust and contaminants from getting inside the connector.
2. How does dielectric grease work?
   Electrical connectors treated with non-conductive dielectric grease easily conduct electricity through their pins because spring tension or tight clearance between male and female pins displaces the grease and creates metal-to-metal contact.
3. What are the benefits of dielectric grease?
   Older electrical connectors that have been consistently treated with dielectric grease might actually conduct electricity better than “dry” pins in connectors of the same age because corrosion or surface oxidation is greatly reduced.
4. What can I use if I don’t have dielectric grease?
   Silicone-based synthetic grease is a viable substitute for dielectric grease.
5. Can I use Vaseline instead of dielectric grease?
   Conventional petroleum-based grease (i.e. Vaseline) is NOT a substitute for dielectric grease. The petroleum base can attack the rubber, polymer or silicone-based seals of electric connectors and cause major problems with moisture and dust intrusion.

And actually, I can tell you that Vaseline can be use and is a great substitute for dialectric grease. It does not attack rubber, nor polymer or silicone seals, that's rubbish.
Vaseline can be use on electrical contacts with great effect, protects them from oxidation.

 

[JAMLAX]

Thanks for the timely tips...Dialectric it shall be for me!
I'm aiming to change the Spark plugs, HT leads, and the oil & oil filter tomorrow. Looking forward to using the new tools I've recently invested in - including the torque wrench

 

[Yolanda]

Ok So it's a non conductive insulating grease that conducts electricity have it your way.

 

[jrkitching]

For those who don't know the grease is an electrical conductor so it doesn't impair current flow.

No, it isn't. Dielectric grease is specifically designed to be strongly insulating to prevent the flow of electricity. This is precisely why it's good to use in this application, since it prevents the spark using any moisture or other conductive contamination to track to earth down the body of the plug.

It's not there to provide a conductive path between the lead and plug; it's there to stop moisture providing an alternative conducting path that's easier to pass than the plug gap.

It's a highly insulating grease that specifically prevents the flow of electricity.

If you're going to use something to help prevent corrosion from making the plug lead hard to remove in future (which in itself is a good idea), you need to use something that's not conductive. Dielectric or silicone grease is specifically designed for this purpose.

A spark capable of crossing a 1mm plug gap will have no problem with the metal-to metal contact between the lead and plug terminal.

 

[ZaphodB]

No, it isn't. Dielectric grease is specifically designed to be strongly insulating to prevent the flow of electricity.

It's what I said in post 22

 

[JAMLAX]

Great discussion and sharing of mechanical / electrical knowledge. Thanks everyone.

P.S. Royal Mail has notified me that the Spark Plugs 'out for delivery' today. Here's hoping!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Just thought I'd kick in with my take on this. The "plug on" type coils now used on many cars can be difficult to remove because the rubber boots tend to bind to the spark plug ceramic. A light coating of dielectric grease or silicon grease applied to the inside of the rubber boot helps it to release next time you need to and protects the connections from water and dirt ingress. It is not electrically conducting - last thing you want around HT electricity is something which might help it to short to earth!

I've never tried using Vaseline for this but do remember well when, many years ago, I owned a car where the door seals would freeze to the door frames in very cold weather so you couldn't open the doors. Someone suggested to me that smearing Vaseline around the rubber door seals would stop then freezing shut - and they were right, it did! However it also slightly melted the surface of the rubber so that if you allowed your clothes to brush against it you got a disgusting black mark on them which was very difficult to remove. I believe it was the Vaseline which did this - after all it is a petroleum based product! On this evidence I wouldn't recommend using it on plugs and rubber insulators like HT leads and spark plug connectors.

 

[ZaphodB]

the Vaseline which did this - after all it is a petroleum based product! On this evidence I wouldn't recommend using it on plugs and rubber insulators like HT leads and spark plug connectors.

It (petrolatum) is a weak ingredient in vaseline, but it's there nontheless, whether the boots are pure rubber or EPDM (a common rubber alternative) it'll eventually get at it.

 

[Mike1alike]

I stand corrected.

 

[Yolanda]

So do I.

 

[JAMLAX]

Well from 2pm till 6pm this afternoon I took plenty of time making sure my new spark plugs and HT leads were ever so carefully installed, then I did the oil and oil filter change. Glad to report the engine management light went out as soon as the new SP & HT leads went in!
Sounds super again. Thanks all.

 

[ZaphodB]

Well from 2pm till 6pm this afternoon I took plenty of time making sure my new spark plugs and HT leads were ever so carefully installed, then I did the oil and oil filter change. Glad to report the engine management light went out as soon as the new SP & HT leads went in!
Sounds super again. Thanks all.

 

[portland_bill]

Just thought I'd kick in with my take on this. The "plug on" type coils now used on many cars can be difficult to remove because the rubber boots tend to bind to the spark plug ceramic. A light coating of dielectric grease or silicon grease applied to the inside of the rubber boot helps it to release next time you need to and protects the connections from water and dirt ingress. It is not electrically conducting - last thing you want around HT electricity is something which might help it to short to earth!

I've never tried using Vaseline for this but do remember well when, many years ago, I owned a car where the door seals would freeze to the door frames in very cold weather so you couldn't open the doors. Someone suggested to me that smearing Vaseline around the rubber door seals would stop then freezing shut - and they were right, it did! However it also slightly melted the surface of the rubber so that if you allowed your clothes to brush against it you got a disgusting black mark on them which was very difficult to remove. I believe it was the Vaseline which did this - after all it is a petroleum based product! On this evidence I wouldn't recommend using it on plugs and rubber insulators like HT leads and spark plug connectors.

Recently I changed the plugs on my Fabia. That turned out to be quite a challenge. Change interval is 4 years. The coil boots would not let go, and are deep in a tube, so getting a hook under them proved impossible. Eventually destroyed them. New boots are available, but 3/4 the price of new coils, and coils are more readily available, so coils it was.
Last changed by a Skoda specialist, now closed, but had been a dealer, then a specialist for many years. Not a trace of grease on any boot. I think the mechanic probably got distracted, and when he returned, forgot that he hadn't greased them.

 

[Mike1alike]

Nobody used to put grease inside the leads' boots. The discussion here led to the correct conclusion that it would be a brilliant idea to use dialectical grease though.

 

[Yolanda]

The first time I used said grease was on my Mercedes, the leads were an absolute pain to remove resulting in snapping one, even using the appropriate plug wire pliers. So, when refitting I used a fair amount of the grease, that's why I presumed the grease was a conductor of electricity. We live and learn.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thanks for the timely tips...Dialectric it shall be for me!
I'm aiming to change the Spark plugs, HT leads, and the oil & oil filter tomorrow. Looking forward to using the new tools I've recently invested in - including the torque wrench

Jut remember sump plug needs only around 10lbft so do up and nip up when firm. I used ptfe tape 3x round as it helps seal and makes removal easier. Personal preference only.

 

[JAMLAX]

Well, the main benefit of my 'misfire mis-steps' is that now, having gotten in about the job of spark plugs removal & replacement, I'm no longer afraid of tackling this task in the future. Many thanks all Fiat Forum contributers for your great support and encouragements.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Recently I changed the plugs on my Fabia. That turned out to be quite a challenge. Change interval is 4 years. The coil boots would not let go, and are deep in a tube, so getting a hook under them proved impossible. Eventually destroyed them. New boots are available, but 3/4 the price of new coils, and coils are more readily available, so coils it was.
Last changed by a Skoda specialist, now closed, but had been a dealer, then a specialist for many years. Not a trace of grease on any boot. I think the mechanic probably got distracted, and when he returned, forgot that he hadn't greased them.

Got a feeling I mentioned this somewhere else, but it was a while ago because I had the same problem with the coil packs on the Ibiza - 3 cylinder EA211 engine (like yours?) They just wouldn't come out and I decided to let the lads at AVW do it. Luckily the chap who owns the garage is a family friend, so I asked him if it was a common problem. He said they do tend to be hard to get out without leaving the rubber boot behind on the plug. The "trick" is to only pull straight up on the coil pack and not to "wiggle" it about. There's an extraction tool which makes this easier to do. However, if the rubber boot does stay on the plug then take your air gun and stick it into the top of the rubber boot - depending on design you may need to wrap tape round it or tale some other action to get a seal - and blow compressed air into the rubber. This usually breaks the hold of the rubber boot on the plug ceramic and "blows" it loose and out. Might be some time before I need to try this with the Scala not being even two years old yet and having modern iridium - or whatever - type plugs. All the above is, of course, not a lot of help if you don't have a compressor!