Technical Another oddball electrical symptom - yellow triangle alert!

[Bonefish Blues]

OK compadres, riddle me this one. First to say, asked the mechanic to put his tester on the battery yesterday and he said that it was within range - not tippy-top, but still fine. Multijet 4x4 btw.

Increasingly often, after a few (sometimes a very few) minutes I lose start-stop. Recently, typically when I brake, I also lose hill hold, and then ESC. I never lose them all simultaneously, it's always incremental, as I have described.

Is it simply a case of buy a new battery being the answer to every Panda ill, or might I have a dodgy connector somewhere, circuit being broken when I brake, or what do you think? It's inconvenient and mildly amusing, but obviously I'd like to fix.

 

[Marcus Daly]

Battery.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Yes, battery
Mine failed with nearly no warning after five years of service, but with that same sequence of warnings. I don’t think EFB (flooded) stop-start batteries really can be tested in the same way as ‘older’ types. If they are anything other than ‘tip top’ then failure happens very soon after.
Check out Tayna for a replacement: Order online and delivered within 24 hours and much cheaper than most other sources. If not battery, you won’t really know unless it’s replaced first.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Battery.

Agree sounds like my experience. My batteries all sit at >12.6v after a week of standing.

 

[cmot]

Could well be the battery, but next time you get a no start, run a heavy wire ( jump lead perfect) from negative post on battery to a good earth point on engine. If this cures it, you have an earth issue. Mind you I have had to replace a stop/start battery after 2 years, car sat around too much

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I suppose there is a chance that if it is the earth strap connected to the engine which is failing, that could be moving as you brake... but really that strap should only affect high current things attached to the engine (the starter, and diesel glow plugs), and not affect things earthed to the bodywork (practically everything else). Assuming it starts well, that would suggest the earth is ok to me?

I did have the alternator fail on my 2018 MJ 4x4 (it sits low down and was damaged by grit in quite shallow floodwater), and that led to issues. The alternator offers more charge under braking and engine overrun, so maybe there's a clue there too. However, its really hard to tell -- just measuring the voltage with the car stationary won't tell you (because is an 'intelligent' alternator, the voltage output varies between 12.5 and as high as 16V briefly, but only under braking. You won't see 16v measured across the battery because its own internal resistance means it can't get that high. If you have MES you can get it to show a graph of voltage during driving).

Still, much cheaper to replace the battery (than the alternator) to eliminate that option before exploring others. How old is the battery, and what mileage the car? Stop/start batteries hate low mileage use, and rarely last more than four or five years -- much less if used less.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

By way of an update regarding strange goings-on with Panda electrics...

I was getting error codes, as above. I didn't get around to fitting a new battery, but I started getting a DRL out message. I was just about to change the bulb (odd, because it wasn't long ago changed) when as if by magic it came back on and I began to get the 'check stop light' error (all the time continuing to have occasional Hill Hold, Start/Stop & ESC off messages).

I changed the rear bulb yesterday, even though the filaments were intact (don't really get that, but hey, I did the thing). It's now had 4 trips, maybe 50-60 miles and no warnings for bulbs (obvs), but also nothing for the ESC etc.

Not quite enough miles to be conclusive yet, but what on earth's happening? I know canbus systems work in mysterious ways, but welcome any sense that can be made by anyone?

 

[Bonefish Blues]

...and an update to the update. Got a DRL out alert this morning. Did not get the DRL out alert when I did a second journey about 45 mins later.

The car's messing with my head, isn't it?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

...and an update to the update. Got a DRL out alert this morning. Did not get the DRL out alert when I did a second journey about 45 mins later.

The car's messing with my head, isn't it?

The DRL warnings tend to come and go owing to crud on the contacts. A good thump on the light (or jolt from a speed bump) cures it temporarily- eventually, some months later, I changed the bulb

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

all the time continuing to have occasional Hill Hold, Start/Stop & ESC off messages)

These are the ‘standard’ signs of a failing battery… plenty of posts here list exactly those and are cured by replacing the battery

 

[Bonefish Blues]

These are the ‘standard’ signs of a failing battery… plenty of posts here list exactly those and are cured by replacing the battery

Yes I know, and they've been coming on for some weeks, but have not appeared since the stop light was replaced. It's more than coincidence, but I don't understand the connection?

 

[AnthonyH]

I have the DRL on/off issue. I turned DRL off in the car menu then when I drive i put the main lights on - problem solved and no more warnings! But yeah its a contact issue, you'd need to try contact cleaner, squish the contacts, or buy new bulb holders.

The stop start has never worked in my car, it doesn't have the right battery. I actually don't want to use stop start, it'd no doubt un-nerve me in busy traffic and the petrol saving is small. If you're not bothered about losing stop start you should leave it off and wait until the battery dies a normal death. Then buy a cheaper non stop start battery, or another stop start battery that'd take away the problem.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I have the DRL on/off issue. I turned DRL off in the car menu then when I drive i put the main lights on - problem solved and no more warnings! But yeah its a contact issue, you'd need to try contact cleaner, squish the contacts, or buy new bulb holders.

The stop start has never worked in my car, it doesn't have the right battery. I actually don't want to use stop start, it'd no doubt un-nerve me in busy traffic and the petrol saving is small. If you're not bothered about losing stop start you should leave it off and wait until the battery dies a normal death. Then buy a cheaper non stop start battery, or another stop start battery that'd take away the problem.

It is a new bulb holder (about 6 months ago) - at considerable expense... What I'm trying to understand is why my other codes/disablements have disappeared - batteries don't 'get better' AFAIK!

 

[AnthonyH]

It is a new bulb holder (about 6 months ago) - at considerable expense... What I'm trying to understand is why my other codes/disablements have disappeared - batteries don't 'get better' AFAIK!

The "big" newer battery on my EVO is more temperamental than the older smaller battery on my Grande Punto. If i don't drive the EVO for two days its slower to start and wants to crank longer. The Grande Punto will start first time after weeks sat doing nothing.

I suppose i'm saying batteries are complicated, variable and do get better, sort of...the EVO will start first time, every time if i drive it daily. Not sure if this comment helps but anyway...

 

[chris3234]

Have you checked the brake light switch is working correctly?

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Have you checked the brake light switch is working correctly?

Not sure how I check - the brake lights are working correctly after the bulb change tho'

 

[Panda IIs]

Not sure how I check - the brake lights are working correctly after the bulb change tho'

Brake light switch has two sets of contacts which work with the ECM to control emissions. One set close with the pedal pressed (brake lights on) while the other set opens and vice-versa. You probably need the switch out of the car and a continuity/multi meter. I think I would expect the engine management light warning rather than the Yellow triangle if it is not a bulb but I don't have that experience (yet) with my Panda.