Technical Another question re Twin Air oil recommendation...

[Bergi NZ]

Hi.
I've just purchased a 2015 Panda .9 Twin Air.
The handbook recommends 5W-40 C3 synthetic oil to meet Fiat specification 9.55535-S3. The car is in New Zealand, so when sold new here did not have to meet euro 6.
Selenia K Pure Energy 4 L is $188.00 NZ, $47/litre!= 86 British pounds. I'm wanting to find more economic oil that still meets all the Fiat specs, Shell Helix HX7 ECT 5W-40 does, but not available in NZ.
Petronas oils are available here, makers of Selenia I understand.
Does anyone know the Pertonas synthetic oil that meets the full Fiat spec? I can't find the information from their website. Petronas full synthetic oils are around NZ$85.00/4L a considerable saving.

 

[KPat]

It's Petronas Syntium 3000 AV 5W-40 C3. Good luck.

 

[JaffaOrange]

I’m just buying some oil now and I I’ll be getting Castrol Edge 5W-40.
It meets ACEA C3 and Fiat 9.55535-S2 (you quote -S3, but my owners’ manual says -S2).
And it is available here (UK) in a 4 litres bottle so enough for an oil change and some for topping up.
No idea if it’s on sale in NZ but it meets all the specs for my Twinair.

 

[Bergi NZ]

Thanks for your replies.
You are correct Jaffaorange, I should have quoted S2...
Re the Castrol Edge 5W-40, I have seen that but have been unable to confirm it meets C3 and Fiat 9.5553-S2? The pack I have for another vehicle states ACEA A3/A4, that indicates it doesn't meet C3?
Thanks for the Petronas type Kpat, I'll check to see If it's available.
Another option I have is Penrite Enviro+ 5W-40 C3 and Penrite states it meets Fiat 9.55535-S2. On special here àt the moment, 7L for NZ$108.... Very good value. Should get 2 oil changes from that.
Appreciate your assistance, oils have become complex with these modern sophisticated engines.

 

[Bergi NZ]

Here's the Panda. A lounge with just 43000 km and documented dealer servicing every 7000km. Hope to get a good couple of years out of it. Our 3rd Panda, had 2 169's. They weren't sold new in NZ but are private imports and very rare. So far this one seems well looked after and drives well apart from lots of road noise.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Do read up re the oil on here. Personally I am sticking religiously with teh Petronas oil. This engine is built around its oil spec and does need the exact right oil to function right. Its the one area I will never compromise as there are too many problems from straying onto the wrong grade of oil. The engine varies valeve timing forwards and backwards, it also opens and closes the valves more or less depending on the situation. Oil temperature and pressure are critical to this sytem working right. For the extgra money it may cost I think its worth it, Stick with the oil recommended grade is 0W30 or 5W30 for the UK. Check your handbook and if reuiqred vary according to season. The car looks great and I hope it goes well for you.

 

[JaffaOrange]

Bergi - here is a shot from the Castrol.com uk website…

 

[Marcus Daly]

Amazingly, there is a new Fiat dealer that just opened up close to me. The old one went out of business, deservedly, but I thought I’d put the new one to the test for my 4x4’s annual service. This one had the Fiat franchise years ago, gave it up, and have returned to it. They got my service business with one word.

Me: “Hi I’m just calling to enquire about booking my car in for a service.”

Dealer service manager: “OK. What car is it?”

Me: “Panda 4x4. Twin Air. They’re fussy about oil.”

Dealer service manager: “Extremely.”

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

Hi Panda Nut. Very interesting what you say, and i fully concur, now! My TA 4x4 was my first ever Panda (but my umpteenth car) bought new 6 years ago and still with only 12000 miles on the clock. I went back to the dealer I bought it from for the first service/oil change etc (This despite the fact I had and still have an" independent" who previously looked after all my cars, camper etc very well indeed) the dealer changed the oil etc and as I had asked for a small supply of oil to carry for top ups, they supplied a litre of SHELL oil. I queried this with them and said the Handbook says use only Selenium. They procrastinated, avoided answers etc but finally said they could not get Selenium and that the Shell they had used was OK. No comment from them on the Handbook statement "...use only Selenium..."
By this time I had done a few miles so if the oil was wrong it was a bit too late..
Frankly I was not impressed with the service or knowledge etc.
Next service, I returned to my excellent Independent" who bought the diagnostic software to do my servicing (and hopefully others). I bought ,a good supply of Castrol Magnatec 0/30 and we have used this ever since. The car seems to me to be absolutely spot on but of course I have no real comparison, but will continue to use my supply of Magnatec and hope for the best.
Of course at 12000 miles it's not really run in yet.
Irrelevant maybe, but when I give it some welly it SOUNDS absolutely great, and takes off like a Scalded Cat.
Overall I am learning a lot from this Forum, so my thanks to you and all contributors.

 

[Vic20]

Concur on the Petronas / Selenia. Ours would struggle to pass the emissions (Lambda) test on Castrol & Shell

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

Vic. I have had no problems at all about passing emissions, I am very glad to say.

 

[Bergi NZ]

An update re the oil...
Petronas distributor for NZ got back to me; they don't import Syntium 3000 AV 5W-40 C3 into NZ.
The Castrol Edge 5W-40 sold in NZ is not C3 or meeting Fiat 9.55535-S2 You obviously have a greater range of Castrol oils in the UK.
I got another price for Seleniun K Pure energy 5W-40. Still close to $200.00 for 4 liters!
The trouble is, Fiats were sold in NZ as "Premium" cars and were sold through dealerships selling Maserati, Audi, Range Rover and others so servicing and parts reflect that.
The sheaf of service invoices I have with the car from the previous owner all have oil/filter service and checking of everything else costing $621 average. No other work done. Expensive for a small "cheap" car. (=288 British pounds.)
I've decided to use the Penrite 5W-40 C3 that meets Fiat 9.55535-S2. I have a genuine Fiat oil filter and there's new irridium plug and an air filter on order as well.
Thanks for all your responses, I appreciate the time you took to reply.

 

[JayAre]

Puzzled @Bergi NZ says:

1. “2015 Panda .9 Twin Air. The handbook recommends 5W-40 C3 synthetic oil to meet Fiat specification 9.55535-S3”

My UK 2016 Panda TA (handbook) recommends 0W-30 C2 synthetic oil to meet Fiat specification 9.55535-GS1

Appreciate two different countries here, but climate is not hugely different(?)

Question
So why is the oil grade different for the same engine?

And while we’re on the subject of oil can I chuck in a couple more?

2. UK handbook also says:
“NOTE For the 0.9 TwinAir and 0.9 TwinAir Turbo versions, engine oil dipstick B is integral with the cap A. Take out the engine oil dipstick A, clean it with a lint-free cloth and reinsert it. Extract it again and check that the level is between the MIN and MAX marks on the dipstick.”

Members here have assured (other threads) that the cap must be screwed back to the “clicks” (after wiping the dipstick) before removing again to take the oil level reading - but Fiat doesn’t say this…

Question
What conclusive evidence from Fiat is there or is it just an assumption?

3. Dipstick Max/Min markers are (infamously) not shown in the handbook. Members here have also assured (other threads) that the Max/Min marks are the bit at the end - but Fiat doesn’t say this and, indeed, the pic on the oil cap suggests otherwise! (see pic below)

Question
What conclusive evidence from Fiat is there or is it again just an (albeit reasonable) assumption?

 

[Bergi NZ]

I think the different oil recommendations between UK and NZ Twin air Panda's is because NZ did not change to Euro 6 emission standards. From other posts it seems that one of the ways Fiat met the stricter Euro 6 standards was by reducing the oil viscosity from 5W-40 to 0W-30.
There's no mention in the NZ handbook to use the lower viscosity oil, 5W-40 C3 is the only oil grade listed.

 

[KPat]

Because in 2016 Fiat changed the oil specs in the handbook. The first page is from a 2014 handbook. The second is from the 2017 handbook.

 

[JayAre]

so when @The Panda Nut says…

Personally I am sticking religiously with teh Petronas oil. This engine is built around its oil spec and does need the exact right oil to function right. Its the one area I will never compromise as there are too many problems from straying onto the wrong grade of oil

…the engine does not in fact need only 0W-30 C2 and isn’t as fussy and demanding for this as many say?

 

[euroben]

Because in 2016 Fiat changed the oil specs in the handbook. The first page is from a 2014 handbook. The second is from the 2017 handbook.

Did they change the oil specs for a reason? I have ordered 5W-40 for my TA turbo because that’s what my 2013 manual states. Haven’t put it in yet but am just wondering why they changed the advice to 0W-30 in later manuals?

 

[Funky Spike]

Did they change the oil specs for a reason? I have ordered 5W-40 for my TA turbo because that’s what my 2013 manual states. Haven’t put it in yet but am just wondering why they changed the advice to 0W-30 in later manuals?

My old 2012 4x4 was getting 5W/40 when being serviced at Fiat up to 2021/2 then they changed to 0W/30. I did ask why and got no better than "that's what Fiat say" it was always Castrol too not the Petronas/Selina.
It ran equally well on both.

Spike

 

[Eltezz]

I can’t believe the change is for any reason other than lower viscosity = less drag on engine internals = lower CO2 emissions, the holy grail for all motor manufacturers…

 

[The Panda Nut]

Did they change the oil specs for a reason? I have ordered 5W-40 for my TA turbo because that’s what my 2013 manual states. Haven’t put it in yet but am just wondering why they changed the advice to 0W-30 in later manuals?

Yes Euro 6. There will be tweaks to the engine software as the oil viscocity sensor will have different parameters that make it important, but reduced oil reistance at cold improves mpg for euro 6. No doubt the uni air unit has had software changes to counter the differences in temperature viscicity curvesuand so its inadvisable to use the old grade of oil on the EUro 6 or you may get starting and certainly cold engine running issues. The computer ecu will adjust via the Euro 5 sensors but will then noy have a complete operating range for variation of timing and opening the valves becauee its operwting values ahve shifted to the bottomof the visocity range. Valve timing and opening varies according to oil pressure temperature and oil viscosity sensors. Running the wrong spec is something I think will cause long term issues with the uniair and the engine. At best it will affect economy. Read the leaflets in the down loads above and you will see how the system works..