Another Dealer Quits

[vexorg]

Most two car families might only make a 100+ mile journey a couple of times a year and with a 200 - 250 mile range on a lot of the newer EVs, you could charge it once a week on your home charger and that's it.

A year? that's us a couple of times a month, regularly go see our kids at uni. Or bored at the weekend then out for a few hundred mile drive. Doesn't everyone do that???

My car is only used for work and about 12k miles a year, my wife's is used more as it's typically newer and higher spec, 18k to 20k a year is more normal for that car - she only lives less than 5 miles from her work. Why buy a car and not use it? (I'm ignoring the car in my garage that's moved maybe 100feet in the last 10 years )

 

[AndyRKett]

A year? that's us a couple of times a month, regularly go see our kids at uni. Or bored at the weekend then out for a few hundred mile drive. Doesn't everyone do that???

My car is only used for work and about 12k miles a year, my wife's is used more as it's typically newer and higher spec, 18k to 20k a year is more normal for that car - she only lives less than 5 miles from her work. Why buy a car and not use it? (I'm ignoring the car in my garage that's moved maybe 100feet in the last 10 years )

A couple of years back I was also doing 20k miles a year and my wife was doing 130 mile a day commute, but that’s not what the vast majority of people do and now I work from home and make few journeys, I could arguably get away with a Citroen ami just not sure I’d cope with the 30mph top speed.

 

[bugsymike]

It's got heated seats..... I bet it also has carplay

In fairness from 1969 to 1982 I was employed so had to buy and insure etc. at my cost, it was a long time ago and though cars were cheap, so were my wages (in 1982 just before going self employed I was the foreman of a dealership, taxed 30% as a single man due to first wife leaving which meant I was trying to keep the house after paying her off, living on around £63 take home, to pay the mortgage and all the other bills, so living on black coffee and spam sandwiches!) can I have a sympathy vote.
Going self employed was a great improvement.
Re the cars, if I had only paid 50 pence a week to store them I would have been out of pocket in most cases.
I bought cars I liked, which now are collectible but then were just cheap run abouts.

 

[AndyRKett]

so living on black coffee and spam sandwiches!) can I have a sympathy vote.

Nope, Who hasn't got an Ex-wife and an unhealthy relationship with caffeine

 

[SB1500]

The unprecedented drop in value signals something to me… that nobody wants them. Bad for the original buyer - just think, how bad must that EV have been for someone to take that 7k hit in under a year.

Then again, 11,000 miles.. 61 recharges (based on 180 miles range best case). 22 hour charge time at home?! ..7 hours with a faster charger. 48 minutes with a high speed charger. Best case, 49 hours. Over two days of life. Spent charging that car. I’d get bored of CarPlay well before that!

Versus the petrol variant.. which funnily enough, I can’t find any official figures published for miles per tank. Average fill up time … 5 minutes. Maybe 15 if there’s someone wandering around the shop with their car still at the pump..

For what it’s worth, I was able to get a top spec DS3, and a fairly decent Avensis, relatively new, for an insane drop in price from new (both worth 22k new I’m sure). 9k (3yrs old- 40% drop). 12k (3.5yrs old-54% drop). That’s because both cars are packed with ancient parts, both long in the tooth by the time my models were made.. usually not even a best buy when they were new and more competitive. Bad figures. That Corsa EV has dropped 46% in one year! Imagine the 3 year figure… New records. For the worse.

Year old...barely got the stickers worn off the tyres.

View attachment 434030

Should cost significantly less to run than buying a new petrol Corsa for 18k..

So very much depends whether or not your expectations are to buy a new 500 mile car for 5 English pounds otherwise you aren't interested.

Honestly, it’s the principle of it to me. “You WILL buy an EV after 2035”. Principle that it costs nearly double for a like for like car. And does LESS.

 

[StevenRB45]

3 year value seems alright actually.

It would just seem to be following the traditional Vauxhall depreciation curve of huge chunk in the first year as it's unlikely any one has ever paid list unless they were an absolute half wit so it's unlikely to actually be a 47% loss.

However in terms of the car...it's easily twice the car you'd get buying a 17k petrol Corsa...given it has nearly twice the horsepower, more equipment and costs less to run and service.

As an argument seems a strange one to make, especially as no one is buying a brand new 75bhp petrol Corsa to do 20k a year and it would also depreciate.

 

[SB1500]

3 year value seems alright actually.

View attachment 434031

It would just seem to be following the traditional Vauxhall depreciation curve of huge chunk in the first year as it's unlikely any one has ever paid list unless they were an absolute half wit so it's unlikely to actually be a 47% loss.

However in terms of the car...it's easily twice the car you'd get buying a 17k petrol Corsa...given it has nearly twice the horsepower, more equipment and costs less to run and service.

As an argument seems a strange one to make, especially as no one is buying a brand new 75bhp petrol Corsa to do 20k a year and it would also depreciate.

It’s a good spec. And at those prices a good price. For the right customer, for sure, it’s fine.

And sure enough, given I live so close to my workplace and only actually need to go in two days a week… then leisure trips for farther afield (no more than 150 miles) - even I’d fall into that category where typical EV range would work if I had to make it work.

Sigh. I suppose again, it’s just the principle of it I don’t like. As someone who’s pretty impatient, factoring in up to an hour for a full recharge or 80% charge to delay the time it takes to get home would be a bit of a drag too.

If it all works out how it’s supposed to… It’ll be a new reality of life we have no choice to accept.

I think even the Fiat 500E could work for a lot of real world average people. Myself included.

The other side I can’t sit right with is… in practice, real traffic, real weather, will it get anywhere near 200 miles? Then… 5 years … 10 years old, how much of it will it achieve then in reality?

- sure there’ll be reconditioning. But something tells me it’ll be like any MacBook I’ve owned. Few years in. Broken keys. Only Apple can fix it. Extortionate cost. Dodgy local repairs or ‘refurb’ parts are online but never even worked consistently or for very long before another keyboard failure. It basically was like this: uneconomical to fix properly. Buy a new one.

I’d just hate to be forced into that conclusion with a big purchase as a car.

 

[AndyRKett]

Sigh. I suppose again, it’s just the principle of it I don’t like.

Taking away everything else you said, this hits the nail on the head.

Beliefs above common sense, when presented with no real reason to not take the route of going electric, you'll always find something wrong.

A Corsa is not a MacBook, this has been covered many times now, cars have active battery cooling or heating, they have systems that condition and keep the battery in optimum condition, Also people tend to use their laptops with the charger plugged in for 99% of the time which kills the battery through over charging and not being cycled, they also always run their phone or laptop on full charge all of the time, when if you only need to go 10 miles down the road do you really need to plug the car in and fully charge it if you have 90 miles range left?

You wouldn't make a trip to the petrol station before your journey to fill up just in case you run out of fuel when you are very clearly not going to run out of fuel. you might go and fill up for other subsequent journeys but with an electric car you just plug it in when you get home.


As for depreciation. It as always been that remark that you lose half the value when you drive it off the forecourt.

I was looking at a new Range Rover the other day, well not "new" but only 2 years old that had also lost half it's value, which for that car was over £70,000 for just two years depreciation, and not electric.

Electric cars have much higher up front costs but then that goes down over the life of the car without having to have it serviced, no oil changes, no spark plugs leads or filters to change. No explosions going on that wear things out, by all rights an electric motor could do a million miles and still be perfectly good. Show me a million mile car that's not had thousands spent in servicing and maintenance assuming nothing has failed and needed replacing.


I was in London last week, and stood outside a shop with the push chair while my wife was buying something, and an easy 2/3rds of the cars, taxis and vans that went past were electric. It was very weird how quiet it was at times with no engine idling and cars moving around quietly and cleanly, so I can definately see the benefit for people getting out of noisy, smelly and dirty engine cars.

 

[bugsymike]

Nope, Who hasn't got an Ex-wife and an unhealthy relationship with caffeine

Over the ex wives, now it's pint mugs of filter coffee that I grind the beans myself, much better than cheap instant which gave me headaches, bit like the ex wives.

 

[vexorg]

Nope, Who hasn't got an Ex-wife and an unhealthy relationship with caffeine

Just coffee with me

The corsa was the lowest smallest offering in vauxhall, though, now the current corsa is bigger than an old astra, and the weight of them has gone through the roof (or floor!). If I was forced to get a corsa as my choice then I'd probably think I'm not doing well for myself - even though newer corsas cost more than I've spent on my cars over the years when buying.

 

[bugsymike]

Just coffee with me

The corsa was the lowest smallest offering in vauxhall, though, now the current corsa is bigger than an old astra, and the weight of them has gone through the roof (or floor!). If I was forced to get a corsa as my choice then I'd probably think I'm not doing well for myself - even though newer corsas cost more than I've spent on my cars over the years when buying.

In the past a beaten up Series Land Rover was the answer, as people didn't know if your only means of transport or you had just driven down from your Country Residence

 

[AndyRKett]

In the past a beaten up Series Land Rover was the answer, as people didn't know if your only means of transport or you had just driven down from your Country Residence

My 86 range Rover had a similar affect on people... That is until you closed the roof and half the Norfolk broads fell off the bottom of it with about 10% of the remaining metal the car was just about held together with. Then they realised you were just skint.

 

[bugsymike]

My 86 range Rover had a similar affect on people... That is until you closed the roof and half the Norfolk broads fell off the bottom of it with about 10% of the remaining metal the car was just about held together with. Then they realised you were just skint.

Reminds me of the £90 1964 MGB Roadster I had in the past , it had been resprayed Glacier White with Rostyle wheels , other B owners would do the usual fellow owner wave as you neared them, but as they got close and realised what a shed it was, then the wave became more like shaking something off their hand.

 

[StevenRB45]

Just coffee with me

The corsa was the lowest smallest offering in vauxhall, though, now the current corsa is bigger than an old astra, and the weight of them has gone through the roof (or floor!). If I was forced to get a corsa as my choice then I'd probably think I'm not doing well for myself - even though newer corsas cost more than I've spent on my cars over the years when buying.

I seem to recall you so have a DS4 though...it's modern equivalent is in the same price bracket as the Corsa.

However my point was not will you buy this it is very much they are no where near as expensive as people make out these days..

Infact here's a new one with 10 grand off list in the advert

Whether it's for you or not is kinda immaterial but they are absolutely coming down to normal car pricing now demand is no longer outstripping supply.

Fairly sure if you give it a year the 45k list electric Astra, the new 600, the avenger etc etc will all be at a much more reasonable level used.

 

[vexorg]

A corsa and DS4 are not supposed to be in the same band. DS was meant to be the posh range, and corsa os more your C3 equivalent.
No snobbery on my part as I judge the cars on performance, comfort and cost rather than badge. And the DS4 I've had excels in that, given I paid £4,100 about 7 years ago for it, and it's still going strong and still looks good compared to other modern cars..

 

[StevenRB45]

A corsa and DS4 are not supposed to be in the same band. DS was meant to be the posh range, and corsa os more your C3 equivalent.
No snobbery on my part as I judge the cars on performance, comfort and cost rather than badge. And the DS4 I've had excels in that, given I paid £4,100 about 7 years ago for it, and it's still going strong and still looks good compared to other modern cars..

I'm a little confused on your point here, even 7 years ago £4100 would have got you either a low miles base spec or high spec heavily used Corsa if anything you paid ropy Corsa money for it.

Whereas now the bigger more comfortable is retailing at a higher figure when you take into account age and mileage.

Is the gripe why can't I buy 2 year old cars for 4 grand? As otherwise I'm not sure where it's going..

 

[vexorg]

You equated the corsa to the DS4, i wouldn't agree. And just making the point that a corsa isn't beneth me

 

[StevenRB45]

You equated the corsa to the DS4, i wouldn't agree. And just making the point that a corsa isn't beneth me

No I equated it to the C4 (hence pictures of C4s..) which is your cars modern equivalent...given it was pre- DS split and they killed the C4 hatch off to make an effective replacement for the DS4 in the range and took the DS cars further upmarket.

 

[vexorg]

You make no sense, but hey, if you think the DS4 is the same as a corsa, I'd hold no hope for your car views in general.

 

[StevenRB45]

You make no sense, but hey, if you think the DS4 is the same as a corsa, I'd hold no hope for your car views in general.

I can only assume you think C4 is short hand for Corsa 4 otherwise you can't read.