I still take issue at £46k for a standard peugeot carTake the Peugeot...it achieves 4.5 miles per kWh, despite being a brick and weighing 2.1 and achieves 300 miles plus on the smaller battery option.
I still take issue at £46k for a standard peugeot carTake the Peugeot...it achieves 4.5 miles per kWh, despite being a brick and weighing 2.1 and achieves 300 miles plus on the smaller battery option.
My main point was ‘they need to get so good that, just like ICE (which theoretically also loses some range in the cold) - that we can use them why might having extra anxiety over having the heater on’ etc.However the main point was...in absolute worst case scenario i.e. driving like a shaft with all the toys turned on in sub zero conditions you'd be very lucky indeed to get a regular 350 miles out of a modern ice car..so it's a strange expectation to have of an electric car. It also has the feel of one of those numbers where if it was achieved..the target would suddenly be 500 miles...with a 1 minute charge stop
It’s only about 70-80 miles wide. But still, we tend to not drive back and forth or in a straight line over water. Still, even to Belfast and back 140 miles. I don’t usually have to refuel before or after that. I refuel once a week (I’d say most people do on average). I can get to Belfast and back twice, then there again on a single tank on the Avensis. If I could do that with an EV, without worrying about the heater being on, any time of year, I’d be happy. As it stands today, that might just about be possible - heater off, coasting as much as possible and whatever else feathering an EV would need - in ideal, mostly flat conditions (which the drive across NI rarely is). In fact we’re so squashed geographically that we end up spending ages going up mountains only to come right back down, then back up another.. then repeat on the way back. So small country, difficult inclines I’d say. Whereas in parts of the mainland it’s probably so stretched out and any given usual destinations may for many be along relatively flat / gentle inclines. Who knows.Also the poster lives in Northern Ireland so the longest you can travel between the furthest points of it is 150 miles. I'm not sure how reasonable an expectation of "I want to drive all the way across the country I live in then back, then a bit more...in the middle of winter while doing everything possible to make that not happen" is but that might be my reading of it.
I mean.. maybe. But also, look at other technology. 720p > 1080p > 4K, then demands for fast refresh rates, things like HDR. Today’s standard for professional cameras is already 8k. And with the advent of that new Apple headset, shows and movies are already being filmed in that whole new level of technical complexity. All of these demands continue beyond ‘what we actual need’.Well that's not saying they are for everyone at this point...but the risk with saying things like "I want a minimum 450 mile EV" is they will build them and you will be forever priced out of the market as the battery pack to achieve that is huge. In the US it's a reasonable demand given distances travelled but in Europe not so much.
Or even £46k for a fully-featured, top of the range Peugeot carI still take issue at £46k for a standard peugeot car
That’s so true. Toyota are spot on with its approach. And ironically it might be on the verge of perfecting solid state batteries to theoretically surpass limits that all of the current EVs have! Never the first but by the time they deliver, probably the one you want. (Although dreadfully boring, compared to the Fiats we know and love).manufacturers have realised and are starting to hedge their bets with ICE and Hybrid still in their model range for years to come.
I still take issue at £46k for a standard peugeot car
Sounds like the Fiat 500e on sale today. But nowhere near cheap or affordable to the groups that historically bought the current modern 500..Indeed it's not reasonably priced at all..however this where we're going if the ask is "I want a large SUV that can do many hundred miles between charges even though I never do more than about 10 miles at a time...".
If it was "I'd like a small car that can do 200 odd and charge quickly" then it would be possible to do something like that much cheaper.
But if that is what would be more useful for many drivers, then the only reason for pushing the big beasts is higher profit margin for manufacturers.Indeed it's not reasonably priced at all..however this where we're going if the ask is "I want a large SUV that can do many hundred miles between charges even though I never do more than about 10 miles at a time...".
If it was "I'd like a small car that can do 200 odd and charge quickly" then it would be possible to do something like that much cheaper.
Indeed, because for some reason Fiat built it as a standalone car on a bespoke platform...so it has no economy of scale.Sounds like the Fiat 500e on sale today. But nowhere near cheap or affordable to the groups that historically bought the current modern 500..
Yes to me.Are they both perhaps unattainable transport for the elite at 20k?
Just to pick up on that point. Currently anyone who does not have an electric car has to buy their fuel from one of the many fuel stations dotted about. They need a pump at least and so when you have millions of cars all going to the pump to fill up, having lots of fuel stations and lots of pumps as well as being able to fill those cars up as fast as possible is very helpful.However I think you have brought the other elephant in the room, time taken to refill, plus the size of fuel station needed to fill up a similar amount of vehicles per day. A busy petrol stationary probably has enough vehicles going across it's forecourt in a day to fill a large multi story car park!
But then the complaint is not "electric cars are expensive"..."it's all cars are expensive"Yes to me.![]()
Maybe I am just a "tight a**"But then the complaint is not "electric cars are expensive"..."it's all cars are expensive"
Which is a valid complaint but it's not electric car specific.
Sort of. I mean, in the space of 10 years, a basic Fiat Panda for example, going from £8,000 to £20,000 for this new electric Panda base model.Indeed, because for some reason Fiat built it as a standalone car on a bespoke platform...so it has no economy of scale.
You can get much bigger electric car within Stellantis for similar pricing. Here's one for you have you compared the list price of your dream Panda 4x4 to the projected price of the new C3/Panda with an electric motor?
Are they both perhaps unattainable transport for the elite at 20k?
I reckon it’s EV specific.. new Corsa. £18k. New Corsa Electric, £32k. Nearly double. Same car.But then the complaint is not "electric cars are expensive"..."it's all cars are expensive"
Which is a valid complaint but it's not electric car specific.
This is true to a point.... I bet some of those old cars you owned in the past could be worth a lot of money now even in the 10s of thousands in some cases.Maybe I am just a "tight a**", since 1969 I have loads of vehicles genuinely 200+ and the most I have ever spent on one was including Vat for a work vehicle at around £2.5K on average majority under £1k even these days.
I can see the logic in buying a house that goes up in value, but generally cars only go one way.![]()
I reckon it’s EV specific.. new Corsa. £18k. New Corsa Electric, £32k. Nearly double. Same car.
For that money, why would I buy a city car? I can buy a new A-Class for that. Less than that, actually.
And as for the A-Class, from £30k new.
EQA - presumably the ‘new world’ A-Class, of course it’s a weird SUV thing… 49k. Still a lot more. Still warranting of ‘Well, I’ve got 49k to spend.. why buy an EQA when I can buy a Merc with power, soul and far superior handling’.
I’m not saying the price has to be the same. After all, when we all believed diesels were superior, we paid a few grand more for those engine choices. Not double digit percentage of the base car value more for it.
As you say if only I had those cars now, some were quite interesting but at the time were just cheap bangers and I would say up until the 1990s most cost me less than £300,I was being generous re prices, many I paid under £20, I have had customers who to save them the trouble of advertising their old vehicle when upgrading would just give me it. I am not talking about scrappers, they all had current Mots and ran reliable as they had been serviced by me regularly. The cars I own now, 2012 Citroen C3 Picasso £300, 2010 Fiat Doblo Maxi 1.6 £750, 2007 Skoda Octavia Scout 4x4 £750, 2010 Fiat Scudo 120 Panoramic 8 seater £1000, in fairness they all needed some work doing which was why I bought them to keep my brain working now retired. People say why don't you keep repairing customers cars but the difference is I can do these when I want to, not because I have to.This is true to a point.... I bet some of those old cars you owned in the past could be worth a lot of money now even in the 10s of thousands in some cases.
but just averaging things out 200 vehicles in 54 years is nearly 4 cars per year, so if you're spending say an average of £1000 a time then over the years you have spent a great deal of money on cars, perhaps a £4k car may have lasted longer![]()
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I'm only joking with you and you were in the trade to cars tend to pass through your hands like running water.As you say if only I had those cars now, some were quite interesting but at the time were just cheap bangers and I would say up until the 1990s most cost me less than £300,I was being generous re prices, many I paid under £20, I have had customers who to save them the trouble of advertising their old vehicle when upgrading would just give me it. I am not talking about scrappers, they all had current Mots and ran reliable as they had been serviced by me regularly. The cars I own now, 2012 Citroen C3 Picasso £300, 2010 Fiat Doblo Maxi 1.6 £750, 2007 Skoda Octavia Scout 4x4 £750, 2010 Fiat Scudo 120 Panoramic 8 seater £1000, in fairness they all needed some work doing which was why I bought them to keep my brain working now retired. People say why don't you keep repairing customers cars but the difference is I can do these when I want to, not because I have to.
So as you can see even if I sold them all, it wouldn't go far towards a new EV or even an ICE.
I never sold on my old vehicles for a profit, even the motorcycles it was a long time ago but as an example I sold a 1955 Matchless G11 Super Clubman 600cc with double adult sidecar for £2. a Greeves Scottish ISDT Trials with square barrekl 32TES villiers engine for less than £30.
I look at vehicles in the same way as buying at auction, only spend what you can afford to throw away.![]()
I reckon it’s EV specific.. new Corsa. £18k. New Corsa Electric, £32k. Nearly double. Same car.
It's got heated seats..... I bet it also has carplayYear old...barely got the stickers worn off the tyres.
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Should cost significantly less to run than buying a new petrol Corsa for 18k..
So very much depends whether or not your expectations are to buy a new 500 mile car for 5 English pounds otherwise you aren't interested.