General 2010 Fiat Panda - Parts recommendation

[DaveMcT]

27402/00 - AXLE SHAFTS

FIAT NUOVA PANDA (2003-2009)

eper.fiatforum.com

(1) - CV joint which allows your wheels to steer.
(7) - wheel bearing. A tight press fit into the hub carrier (aka steering knuckle)
(8) - wheel drive flange; Its splined in the middle so the CV can turn the wheel. It's pressed into the wheel bearing inside.

Mechanic might be able to do the job without replacing the bearing but he will probably want to fit a new one as they are easily damaged.

 

[JoleePando]

Dont waste your time with the bolt. The threads in the hub flange have been stripped. It's likely the others can't be trusted. You need a new hub flange. If you dont have bearing press tools, you'll need to get a professional on the case.

Front Hub Flange 7608131

www.shop4parts.co.uk

Meant to say, the others have torqued up with no issue. Do you still think replacing the hub flange is the best course of action?

 

[DaveMcT]

Threads can be repaired with a helicoil insert. However, the wheel flange is such a critical item I'd be concerned the others have been damaged. Shop-4-Parts sell the wheel bearings and wheel flange together, because removing one usually wrecks the other. You could ask a mechanic about a helical repair. See what he/she says.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Meant to say, the others have torqued up with no issue. Do you still think replacing the hub flange is the best course of action?

A new hub is probably the preferred option but it's quite likely the wheel bearing will be destroyed as the old hub is pressed out of it. Sometimes you have to destroy the inner race to get it off the old hub and often the inner race comes away with the hub which does it not a lot of good! The bearing itself is not an astronomically expensive item and as the hub carrier has to be dismantled from the car - so a press can be used on it - you might as well just renew the bearing anyway? If you have a reasonable tool kit then removing the hub yourself and taking it to a workshop to have the old bearing pressed out and the new bearing and hub installed is very "doable". The two big bolts which hold the shocker to the hub carrier can be very corroded and snap (2 did this when I did the front shocks on Becky) but you really should replace those two bolts anyway. Be aware they are not just standard high tensile bolts though - which will be stamped 8.8 on their heads - They are 10.9, or similar, if I remember? Buy the right ones from Shop4parts or a main dealer or wherever but don't just stuff a standard bolt in!

The other option would be a high quality thread insert like these: https://www.timesert.com/ which, in this instance, I think would be a better solution than a wire insert like the more usual Helicoil. I'm not sure how an MOT tester would like this solution if he/she noticed it though. Better to go with a new hub I think.

I'd also want to be very carefully checking all the other hubs on the car because if someone has been "enthusiastic" with a big wrench or air gun it's likely others will be compromised.

 

[JoleePando]

A new hub is probably the preferred option but it's quite likely the wheel bearing will be destroyed as the old hub is pressed out of it. Sometimes you have to destroy the inner race to get it off the old hub and often the inner race comes away with the hub which does it not a lot of good! The bearing itself is not an astronomically expensive item and as the hub carrier has to be dismantled from the car - so a press can be used on it - you might as well just renew the bearing anyway? If you have a reasonable tool kit then removing the hub yourself and taking it to a workshop to have the old bearing pressed out and the new bearing and hub installed is very "doable". The two big bolts which hold the shocker to the hub carrier can be very corroded and snap (2 did this when I did the front shocks on Becky) but you really should replace those two bolts anyway. Be aware they are not just standard high tensile bolts though - which will be stamped 8.8 on their heads - They are 10.9, or similar, if I remember? Buy the right ones from Shop4parts or a main dealer or wherever but don't just stuff a standard bolt in!

The other option would be a high quality thread insert like these: https://www.timesert.com/ which, in this instance, I think would be a better solution than a wire insert like the more usual Helicoil. I'm not sure how an MOT tester would like this solution if he/she noticed it though. Better to go with a new hub I think.

I'd also want to be very carefully checking all the other hubs on the car because if someone has been "enthusiastic" with a big wrench or air gun it's likely others will be compromised.

Thanks for all the advice as usual, Jock I'll need to think about what the next move is here.

If I have to get things fixed on the hub, is it likely I'll lose the tyres in the process or is that something that can easily be put back on if need be? Just got new ones the other day, which is when someone clocked one of the bolts wasn't actually on properly. They still let me drive away (maybe on them?), but obviously need to get it fixed before the next big drive which is later in July.

P.S. I know nothing, hence the blind panic of "shite, have I done this the wrong way?!"

 

[koalar]

13s have felt good to me on the short journey I've taken them. Of course, I did have a nice smooth Audi as a loan from someone previously, so yes, the Panda isn't as good as that. But, as a runaround, the Panda seems like it'll be perfect.

The heaver and longer the car, the better the ride as a general rule but there are exrptions

I do have one issue, and I wonder if anyone can way in. Drivers side front wheel, one of the bolts won't torque up. It's tight but if you try to torque it more it just ends up spinning like the thread isn't catching.

Fairly common on all makes of cars, if anti seize or grease is used you need to adjust the torque setting otherwise it will be over torqued and the threads get pulled out

I'm going to get a new bolt to see if that solves it, but if not, is there a way someone could rethread the hole?

Don't you have some bolt on the other wheels to test with, post a picture of the bolt we should be able to tell

We need to assess the situation,

A new bolt quick and easy

New hub, needs new bearing, need special tools, expensive

I have no problem using inserts, there good enough for a helicopter rotor, however its still not that cheap to start of for a quality set, there are cheaper ones out there but i have never used them, in most cases the repair exceeds the original strength


My local scrap yard where you have to take your own parts off would charge about £15 cash, you do need the large 32mn socket and breaker bar, this is the way a would go if it wasn't just the bolt

 

[jrkitching]

My local scrap yard where you have to take your own parts off would charge about £15 cash, you do need the large 32mn socket and breaker bar, this is the way a would go if it wasn't just the bolt

You'll struggle to get this undone unless you've got the weight of the car on its wheels. If it's one of those yards that just piles cars on top of each other, safety is a consideration also.

 

[koalar]

The other option would be a high quality thread insert like these: https://www.timesert.com/ which, in this instance, I think would be a better solution than a wire insert like the more usual Helicoil. I'm not sure how an MOT tester would like this solution if he/she noticed it though. Better to go with a new hub I think.

Coil inserts are fine, there are used every day in the aircaft industry, as long as there's enough depth (I haven't checked) The ones I have used are £75 for the M12x1. 5 setup, I did see a £15 set but can't recommend them as never used them

I'd also want to be very carefully checking all the other hubs on the car because if someone has been "enthusiastic" with a big wrench or air gun it's likely others will be compromised.

Correct

 

[koalar]

You'll struggle to get this undone unless you've got the weight of the car on its wheels. If it's one of those yards that just piles cars on top of each other, safety is a consideration also.

Just ask them to fork lift it down

 

[DaveMcT]

Mt JTD had a chewed up CV joint nut on one side. I could not shift it and ended up drilling alongside the threads. The staking slots are well angled for the job. The one I took from the 100HP came off easily (it had been correctly torqued).

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

You'll struggle to get this undone unless you've got the weight of the car on its wheels. If it's one of those yards that just piles cars on top of each other, safety is a consideration also.

In my recent experience there are not many yards which let you wander about and do your own stripping any more. I greatly lament the passing of these establishments having spent many happy hours doing this, not so happy in the depths of winter perhaps? One of the big advantages of doing your own stripping is that you can usually keep the fixings - nuts & bolts etc.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Mt JTD had a chewed up CV joint nut on one side. I could not shift it and ended up drilling alongside the threads. The staking slots are well angled for the job. The one I took from the 100HP came off easily (it had been correctly torqued).

Mostly I find the big retaining nut comes off without too much bother, given that you have a long enough lever (power bar etc) Much more problematic is whether the splines of the CV are going to come out of the hub - often they will move easily enough but getting a tight or corroded one to move can be really difficult. Lots of ways to try, releasing oil (like plus gas, PB blaster etc,) using a threaded puller, hitting on it with a hammer, etc. One method I find works well is to use an air hammer, but I appreciate not everyone has this luxury.

 

[rmjbn1]

Will this mean taking the tyres off which I just had put on?

No, it has nothing to do with the wheel and tyre. The damaged bolt screws into the hub behind the wheel.

Drivers side front wheel, one of the bolts won't torque up. It's tight but if you try to torque it more it just ends up spinning like the thread isn't catching.

I'm going to get a new bolt to see if that solves it, but if not, is there a way someone could rethread the hole?

I'd agree with koalar, I would take a bolt off a rear wheel and see if you can tighten that one in the hole where the damaged bolt is.
If it tightens OK, then you just need to replace the one wheel stud, they're available on eBay. Maybe someone just got it wrong with that one stud?
If it strips the thread again, then you know you have a damaged thread in the hub.

Would re-tapping the hub be an option to clean up a damaged thread?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I mean absolutely no offence to our JoleePando but if he/she has so little knowledge of what's involved to be asking whether the tyre needs to be stripped from the rim then can I advise him/her not to undertake this safety critical repair without having an experienced helper readily to hand?

 

[DaveMcT]

Fiat's have wheel bolts. It's highly unlikely the one going into any hole was the same one you took out a few minutes ago. A bolt that spins indicates the wheel flange threads are stripped. It needs to be taken to a mechanic for a professional check for thread insert(s) or new flange and bearing. It would be extremely sensible to have all four hubs checked. The gorilla that ruined this one, may well have damaged others.

Rear wheel hubs/bearings are about £25 each and easy (cheap) to fit. Front bearings are similar money but you have to add the flanges (£25 each) plus the labour costs.

 

[JoleePando]

I mean absolutely no offence to our JoleePando but if he/she has so little knowledge of what's involved to be asking whether the tyre needs to be stripped from the rim then can I advise him/her not to undertake this safety critical repair without having an experienced helper readily to hand?

I'm utterly offended and crying. Pluggit Heartless Jock more like! ;-)

I'm in contact with a mechanic now to see about getting the repairs you mentioned before. Once it's all done, I'll let you know how it goes.

Next job I can do myself: Fixing the bumper in a ghetto fashion using cable ties. Wish me luck.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I'm utterly offended and crying. Pluggit Heartless Jock more like! ;-)

I'm in contact with a mechanic now to see about getting the repairs you mentioned before. Once it's all done, I'll let you know how it goes.

Next job I can do myself: Fixing the bumper in a ghetto fashion using cable ties. Wish me luck.

Oh dear, my true nature is revealed, I'm desolated!

Good luck with the cable ties - where would we be without them.

By the way it's Pugglt - with an L, not an i - Puggled in Scots meaning "at a standstill from exhaustion or frustration, done for, knackered, at the end of one's resources" although spelt puggled it's pronounced as if it ends with a "T" hence my interpretation.

 

[JoleePando]

Oh dear, my true nature is revealed, I'm desolated!

Good luck with the cable ties - where would we be without them.

By the way it's Pugglt - with an L, not an i - Puggled in Scots meaning "at a standstill from exhaustion or frustration, done for, knackered, at the end of one's resources" although spelt puggled it's pronounced as if it ends with a "T" hence my interpretation.

How in the hell has my brain this entire time been reading it as PLUGGIT and not PUGGLT?! I even thought PLUGGIT was a weird word.

"Pugglt" is a real throwback to people saying that in my youth.

 

[JoleePando]

To be fair, you can get a big 1/4" and 1/2" six point socket set for about £50. The ratchet handles are rubbish but the sockets are good enough for DIY spannering. Spend more serious money on 3/8 drive impact spec sockets and three decent ratchet handles. You might break the odd cheap socket but you can replace with individual good ones. 75% hardly ever get used so they don't get chance to be abused. Also get a 1/2" drive 600mm breaker bar. One of the best £20 you'll spend.

For actual spanners definitely get a good quality pro set in ring/open end. You could also get a cheap set of angled end ring spanners. They almost never get used but are handy when you need them.

I also have a pair of impact spec socket adapters - 1/2" to 3/8" and the other way. Yobbo brand versions will allow you to use any socket with any handle. It's often handy to drive a large socket with a small handle.

Oh, another thing with this Panda, I'm going to replace the spark plugs and filters.

What kind of tools am I looking for to do that? Anywhere you'd recommend buying from?

 

[koalar]

Oh, another thing with this Panda, I'm going to replace the spark plugs and filters.

What kind of tools am I looking for to do that? Anywhere you'd recommend buying from?

Tools are discussed here

Spark plugs, simple, quick, easy | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Unplug the lead Unscrew the plug Screw the new ones in Torque up Plug the leads back on and drive off That's how it should go and often does Most of the problems are avoidable Don't change the plugs while it's raining Don't leave the plugs in past 100,000 miles Don't over torque Don't under...

www.fiatforum.com

Not the only options,