Technical 2004 panda active 1.1 no start

[Callsignstar]

hi all new to the forum I'm having a major issue with my 2004 panda 1.1 active. it has fuel in the tank, a charged up battery, oil and water and is able to turn over but wont start. I've worked in older cars from the 60s and have more time working on bikes. I believe it may be a eclectic issues or possibly a fuel issue. I wasn't able to get my snake cam into the cylinders but I believe there all ok and non deformed. if anyone has any tips or a close idea to what the issue could be that would be very apricated.

 

[Callsignstar]

can anyone give me a step by step guide on how to fix the timing issue. many thanks

 

[koalar]

can anyone give me a step by step guide on how to fix the timing issue. many thanks

1032B10 TOOTHED TIMING BELT - R + R FOR TIMING ADJUSTMENT OR REPLACEMENT - Fiat - PANDA - eLearn - 4CarData

have you low compression?
is it turning over too fast?



You can just take the covers off and check.

 

[varesecrazy]

1032B10 TOOTHED TIMING BELT - R + R FOR TIMING ADJUSTMENT OR REPLACEMENT - Fiat - PANDA - eLearn - 4CarData

have you low compression?
is it turning over too fast?

Panda GUIDES on here have pics from mine... its not a complex job

Just awkward if you are CHANGING the belt..due to engine mount

A Retime is a 40 minute job

Cinq-Sei section has LOTS more info too

 

[DaveMcT]

If the timing belt has slipped or failed, fit a new one. Timing belt kits are cheap. There are many guides on You Tube.
Lock the crank and lock the cam. DO NOT UNBOLT THE CAM WHEEL
Mark the cam wheel top tooth with a dab of white paint.
Fit the new belt, remove the cam lock and tension the belt. The cam timing will probably be out by one tooth. Reposition the belt and retension. The mark should now line up.
Remove the crank lock and box up the job.

 

[varesecrazy]

If the timing belt has slipped or failed, fit a new one. Timing belt kits are cheap. There are many guides on You Tube.

Yes.. but the OP has a non.runner

Disturbing another load of kit may double their issues


Somebody said it could still be the Crank sensor... without a revcounter to see 'movement'
The Op wants to ensure there are reliable ignition sparks

 

[koalar]

Yes.. but the OP has a non.runner

Disturbing another load of kit may double their issues


Somebody said it could still be the Crank sensor... without a revcounter to see 'movement'
The Op wants to ensure there are reliable ignition sparks

Not enough feedback from the original poster to come to any conclusions

Until then we are basically just going to guess every possible part. As per many other threads.

We still don't know if the pump is priming

We still don't know if there compression

We can then we can move onto things like connecting a scanner and read the rpm, atp, temperature and so on

The original poster has asked how to time the belt. We have jumped to needing a new belt. But no information as to what tests we're preformed to come to this conclution


Failing to start. Then running fine. Finally spluttering to a stop and not restarting. Is not a typical failure mode for a cam belt or cam sensor although both are possible

Doesn't help that the oil pressure isn't pressurising during cranking, the park brake warning light isn't on and the EPS warning light has been on for years. According to the information we have been given

 

[koalar]

Personally if I wanted to check the timing I would just do a compression test as I have a tester


But even without one. It's pretty easy to test by putting a racket on the Crank pulley and turning the engine over by hand with exhaust and inlet full closed as each piston reaches top there should be quite a bit of spring back. 1 tooth out and it's about half but still starts.

 

[varesecrazy]

Personally if I wanted to check the timing I would just do a compression test as I have a tester


But even without one. It's pretty easy to test by putting a racket on the Crank pulley and turning the engine over by hand with exhaust and inlet full closed as each piston reaches top there should be quite a bit of spring back. 1 tooth out and it's about half but still starts.

Probably very true

But at 7 teeth out mine just sounded like it was out of fuel

I actually tried making a massive spanner to twist out pumps plastic locknut... it wouldnt budge...

So I got it recovered to the place that serviced it... they found the belt had jumped ( failing waterpump bearing)

 

[DaveMcT]

Cam timing out by one tooth (very common on cheapo replacement jobs) will not significantly affect compression and won't affect starting. The usual list of checks need to be done. A mirror and flashlight should show if the cam is turning. A spark tester should show if it's making sparks but the error codes do that a lot easier.

 

[rmjbn1]

isn't this a crank sensor failure........

The symptoms are certainly consistent with crank sensor. I understood OP could hear the fuel pump priming?

Scanning for codes would confirm this.

In principle I agree it's best to diagnose than to blindly swap parts, but the crank sensor is cheap, only one bolt and one plug to change, and they don't last for ever. The magnet in my old one was really weak.

It depends what the OP finds easiest, if they're happier checking compression and timing.

 

[koalar]

hi i was driving it when it broke down. as i was driving the throttle went dead and the engine stopped completely.

Suddenly went dead

i remember that earlier in the day the car refused to start. i tried a couple times before it did start and i drove off. at first i just thought it was playing up but then when it died while i was driving is secondary to that. it did sputter a little a couple 100 meters before it completely stopped.

Is different to spluttering a 100 m beforre stopping

We can only do are best with the information given

The symptoms are certainly consistent with crank sensor. I

Splittering for 100 meters does not sound like a typical crank sensor fault

understood OP could hear the fuel pump priming?

I can't see any conformation of this or have I missed this

Scanning for codes would confirm this.

Neither fuel pump or crank always give an error code

In principle I agree it's best to diagnose than to blindly swap parts,

Correct

but the crank sensor is cheap, only one bolt and one plug to change, and they don't last for ever. The magnet in my old one was really weak.

Just read the engine revs when crank with a scan tool is enough to comfirm if the ECU is seeing a signal for not firing

If not got a scan tool. Test for a spark

It depends what the OP finds easiest, if they're happier checking compression and timing.

You can normally hear when cranking if the cam belt has broken or slipped

As here

 

[DaveMcT]

When my Punto broke the cam belt, it had just been running smoothly down motorway though I did notice the odd hiccup. I came off to a traffic light at top of a slip road. The engine stalled as I tried to pull away. It's a common way for them to fail - spinning up the cams is just too much load. The cam belt had numerous missing teeth with random gaps all around the belt.

The big symptom was an uneven sound from the starter motor. That might not be the issue here but the info might be useful.

 

[rmjbn1]

Splittering for 100 meters does not sound like a typical crank sensor fault

True, but I think the symptoms could be perceived this way.
When my crank position sensor failed it was very intermittent to begin with.
It would cut out for a second whilst driving then pick up again. Felt like a very bad misfire.
It was only as it became more frequent and lasted longer that I noticed the rev counter on my 1.2 drop to zero.
It would also sometimes turn without attempting to fire, sometimes start and run fine.

 

[DaveMcT]

A new crank sensor at about £20 is good insurance for a 20 years old car. However, they are often rusted into place. My 2009 diesel had the sensor well rusted in. Removing it from outside would have wrecked it. I drifted it out from inside with a wooded dowel but it may well need a new one.